DIRTY LITTLE SINNERS - BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. My comments in bold.
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Mr. Finnell pops up from time to time on my blog, mostly because of his persistent overconfidence in his interpretations of Scripture. This missive is no exception.
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Are all babies born into this world as dirty little sinners? (The author attempts to set us up by using descriptors to prejudice our thinking.)

BABIES ARE NOT GUILTY OF ADAM'S SIN

ORIGINAL SIN: Accord to the proponents of original sin, men are born with hereditary depravity (I did a google search for this phrase and the first 30 hits were all refutations of the concept. I could not find anyone who uses this phrase when describing original sin. 

Indeed, I don't think there are many who believe that original sin is hereditary, i.e. genetic. This characterization dishonestly introduces a concept foreign to the doctrine and misleads us as to the actual teaching as held by proponents.)

GOD'S WORD OR MAN'S OPINION? - BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. My comments in bold.

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Mr. Finnell receives regular attention on my blog, because he presents himself as the authoritative voice regarding matters of doctrine. Thus it is correct to hold him to a higher standard.

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NEW REVELATION FROM GOD?-BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. My comments in bold.
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Mr. Finnell is nothing if not doggedly consistent. He will latch onto something and not let go. He takes a topic and hammers it until it is beaten into submission, then writes dozens more posts making the same points over and over. 

So when the situation warrants it, we shall be as tenacious as we can be in response. We will not be able to match Mr. Finnell in sheer volume of repetitious material, nor do we desire to, but we can match and even exceed him in rhetorical prowess.
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*updated* MODERN DAY-APOSTLES? BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. Our comments in bold.

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Update: Mr. Finnell adds a new post about apostleship where he asks, 

"If there were apostles after the ones mentioned in the new testament and if there are apostles living today, why are their writings not included in the Bible? The apostles that Jesus selected wrote Scriptures."

GOD'S COMPLETE REVELATION! BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. Our comments in bold.

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We have yet to find a coherent, persuasive explanation of the supposed cessation of the gifts. Mr. Finnell takes another shot at it, but fails miserably. You can review what we've already written about the subject here. 
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BAPTIZED WITH FIRE? by Steve Finnell

Found here. Reproduced here for fair use and discussion purposes. My comments in bold.

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Finally Mr. Finnell takes on a new topic. Unfortunately, he once again fails basic Bible knowledge. He isolates a passage of Scripture from its context,  infers a conclusion, and then deems baptism with fire to be a bad thing.

I cover this in some depth with another post, so some of this will be a duplication.

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MODERN DAY APOSTLES? BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. My comments in bold.

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We haven't commented on a Steve Finnell article for quite some time, mostly because he posts incessantly about water baptism. Yeah, we get it, Steve. We know you think we gotta be baptized to be saved. Move on already.

So today's post attracted our attention because of the twisting of Scripture to suit his beliefs.
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Speaking In Tongues - by GEORGE L. FAULL

Found here. Our comments in bold.
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We have discussed cessationist thought rather frequently on this blog, including the ceasing of the gift of tongues. We continue to discuss it, because we have yet to find a persuasive biblical case for cessationism. We want to emphasize "biblical," because almost all defenses we have seen invoke silence, contemporary events or practices, and post biblical history. We have found precious little Scriptural apology.

Doctrine is derived from the Bible. Thus, we shall not tolerate any non-scriptural evidence in Mr. Faull's presentation below. Nor shall we accept bare assertions not backed up by Scripture. We shall summarily dismiss such evidence via highlight. 

Read on:
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Dear Brother Faull,

It is my understanding that you do not practice "Speaking in tongues." Why?

Let me give you the reasons why I do not wish to "speak in tongues."

1. I could not defend it as having practical value. It does not prove that I am saved, nor that I'm spiritual, nor that I have the truth, for men of every creed claim this gift.

2. I could not defend it as an aid to devotions. It does not do anything the Holy Spirit does not do for every believer. He searches out our unspeakable requests and make intercession for us.

Romans 8:26-27, "26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God." 

(The author quotes a Scripture, but it is unrelated to his point.)

3. I could not defend it as a sign for unbelievers. If I do it publicly, men of all conflicting doctrines do the same. If I do it in my prayer closet, how will the unbeliever know of it?

(Confused thinking. The public/private expression of tongues is a discussion that does not yield for us a biblical case for their cessation.)

4. I could not defend its "continual existence" from the Word of God. The Scriptures neither imply nor promise the continuance of the gift, but, in fact, states that they will cease while faith, and hope yet abide.

I Corinthians 13:8-13, "8 Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I under-stood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity."

(Well, we finally get a claim based on Scripture. Not a very impressive start. We discuss this passage in great depth here. In addition, cessationist Tom Pennington tells us that this passage is not sufficient to establish cessationism. Indeed, the entire thing rests on the speculation as to what "the perfect" is, and that is certainly shaky ground.

One other thing. The author writes, "The Scriptures neither imply nor promise the continuance of the gift..." This is an astonishing statement. It is a fallacy to expect that Scripture must tell us something will continue in order for us to not assume its end. Apply this reasoning to any other doctrine to see how preposterous this is.)

TONGUES OF PENTECOST? BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. Our comments in bold.

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Mr. Finnell wanders into unfamiliar rhetorical territory, with a "have you ever noticed" comment. We doubt he has ever noticed, because we doubt he's ever been to a charismatic church. He'd rather lob rhetorical bombs from a distance than obtain a first-hand witness. 

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HAVE YOU EVER NOTICED THAT CONTEMPORARY TONGUE SPEAKERS NEVER CLAIM TO SPEAK IN TONGUES LIKE PETER AND THE ELEVEN APOSTLES SPOKE ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST? (Two things. One, what tongues speakers claim or do not claim is clearly something unfamiliar to Mr. Finnell. Many tongues speakers have actually spoke in other, known languages. 

Two, Mr. Finnell artificially restricts the expression of tongues to what happened on the day of Pentecost. He gives no reason for this, since tongues were widespread in the early church.

And three, what does or does not happen in contemporary churches has nothing to do with the biblical case for tongues. Mr. Finnell, and all cessationists, must demonstrate from the Bible that the charismatic gifts have ceased. We have yet to read a persuasive biblically-derived argument from any cessationist advocating for their position.)

ORIGINAL SIN PROOF-TEXT - BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here.
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The author once again is completely reluctant to enter into discussion, preferring to either ignore those who comment on his site, or to create entirely new posts which simply restate his original opinion. He never responds directly to anyone.

In addition, I note there is an alarming paucity of "redeeming" topics on his site. You will find many posts about water baptism, original sin, cessationism, and other nit-picky doctrinal issues, but precious little about leading a Christian life, worship, or prayer, for example. 

So this latest post is simply a rehash of his objections to original sin, complete with the same misunderstandings, unsupported assertions, and misinterpretations. Read on:

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To prove that all men are guilty of sin at conception and therefore born as sinners; original sin proponents quote David in Psalm 51:5. (Which is not the only verse available to quote.)

David Quote: Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. (NKJV)

Was David born into a sinful world? Yes. Was David's mother guilty of sin? Yes. Was David guilty of his mother's sin. No. Was David spiritually condemned because of the sin of Adam and Eve? No. David died physically because of Adam's sin. Men die spiritually because of sins they themselves commit. (This is typical rhetoric from the author. He begins by subtly twisting the position of those he disagrees with, then comes a summary denial with no proof or evidence offered. 

His error is his view of sin. He defines it as "bad things people do" as opposed to the biblical teaching that sin is the state of fallen man. He further errs by his supposition that God is incapable of causing bad things. But we read in Ps. 119:75" "I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me." God causes calamity, he hardened Pharaoh's heart, and He "causes men to stumble..." Is. 8:14. God is so much more than the binary creature envisioned by the author.)

DOES GOD CREATE SINNERS IN THE WOMB? (The author proceeds to conflate "create" with "born.")

BASIC BIBLE DOCTRINE? BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. Our comments in bold.

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Mr. Finnell has made frequent appearances in our blog, usually when he publishes a missive that contains new assertions. New assertions are relatively infrequent, however. His blog is replete with post after post making identical claims. He's nearly a one-note samba.

Also noteworthy is Mr. Finnell's unwavering militant confidence, coupled with a complete unwillingness to engage his commenters. So he is at once supremely sure of himself yet completely disengaged from any give-and-take dialogue. 

The below article is no exception. He presents for us an encapsulation of all he believes to be doctrinally true in a take-it-or-leave-it format. No room is given for the Great Debates of the past centuries, where topics of faith and doctrine have been discussed, studied, and examined by the great Christian thinkers of history. These men of principle and godliness have come to varying conclusions about many of these issues, offering thoughtful explanations and insights into why they came to those conclusions. 

But Mr. Finnell will have none of this. He knows the single correct answer to all these "basic" questions of faith and doctrine with a breezy ease, pretending there is no divergence of opinion. He apparently has surpassed the intellect and credentials of every man who has ever offered analysis. 

So, you either agree or disagree with Mr. Finnell. And, if you disagree, you are not on the side of truth. You have diverged from the correct faith. 

Read on:
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Do most churches teach or preach basic Bible doctrine in the two hours of preaching and teaching on Sunday morning? No, they do not. Why is that? 1. Most church leaders do not understand basic Biblical concepts. 2. Many church leaders who do understand basic Bible teaching refrain from teaching the truth for fear that they might lose their leadership positions. 3. Others honestly believe they will lose church members if they teach Biblical facts. [The truth is most people will not accept the truth. Is that a valid reason for not preaching God's word?]

How would the members of your church congregation answer questions concerning basic Bible doctrine and Biblical concepts?

THE ONE BAPTISM -BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. My comments in bold.

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Mr. Finnell persists in his claim that one needs to be baptized in water to be saved: 
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THE APOSTLE PAUL SAID THERE IS ONE BAPTISM. WHAT IS THAT BAPTISM? (EPHESIANS 4:5 ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM,) WHAT IS THAT ONE BAPTISM?

There is one baptism. Is it water baptism or baptism with the Holy Spirit? (Granting for a moment that there is only a singular baptism, which I would dispute, then what does Mr. Finnell do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit? I'm going to surmise that Mr. Finnell believes the baptism of the Holy Spirit has ceased. This would conveniently allow him to claim there is only one baptism, water baptism.)

The 12 apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. What was the purpose of their baptism? (Notice that Mr. Finnell will restrict his discussion to the apostles, which suggests he believes that only the Apostles received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Most certainly he believes the Apostles received a "special" amount of Holy Spirit not available to us today.)

THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN? - BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. Reproduced here for fair use and discussion purposes. My comments in bold.
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Mr. Finnell asks how being born of water can be anything but water baptism. He would find the answer by actually reading the Scripture in question to determine context. Here is the passage, only a part of which, verse 5, seems to interest Mr. Finnell:

Jn. 3:3-8 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no-one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” 4 “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no-one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” 9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked. 10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

Notice what Jesus says in verse 6, as he amplifies verse 5: "Flesh gives birth to flesh (first birth), and "Spirit gives birth to spirit" (i.e., born again). Jesus is telling Nicodemus that the natural birth is is not enough to "see the kingdom of God" (vs. 5). Something else is required, to be "born of the Spirit" (vs. 8). In fact, Jesus suggests that this is simple, and that Nicodemus as a teacher of Israel should understand these things (vs. 10).

Jesus is speaking also to arrogant attitude of the Jews regarding their status as the chosen nation. This is a critical understanding, for remember that Nicodemus was a teacher of the law, and believed that being a Jew and keeping the law was sufficient. Jesus is not teaching Nicodemus that he had to be baptized.

Let's go to the account of John the Baptist. He is baptizing in the River Jordan when he has an encounter with the teachers of the law:

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: 'You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not think you can say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The axe is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.'" Mt. 3:7-11

Notice John the Baptist condemned the teachers of the law for their smug nationalism, as if that were enough. Remember that John the Baptist was a forerunner (Matt 3:3). He was preparing the way by using water baptism for repentance. But he knew that such a baptism was inferior to the one Jesus would bring, that is, the baptism of the "Holy Spirit and with fire." 

This old order, the external regulations, have passed away, and John the Baptist's ministry was transitory. It is not enough to be born a Jew. It is not enough to be baptized in water and repent. The new way cleanses the conscience. He. 9:8-10: 

"The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings — external regulations applying until the time of the new order."

Jesus is intent on telling Nicodemus that his genetics isn't enough. He wants Nicodemus to know that salvation comes in a way Nicodemus had not considered. Jesus is teaching the teacher spiritual things, the true way of salvation. Being born of the Spirit is the issue, not the water. Tit. 3:5-6: 

"He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior..."

Peter reinforces the idea: 1Pe. 1:23: 

"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God."

There is the natural birth, which is perishable, and the spiritual birth, which is imperishable. Being born again is a supernatural occurrence,  here brought about by the Word, the word that washes us per Ep. 5:25: 

"...Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless."

The testimony of Scripture is that we need to be washed by the Word and the Holy Spirit. Water does nothing for us.
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The scribes and Pharisees had a spiritual problem, they liked man-made doctrine better than God's commandments.

Matthew 15:1-9 ....3..."Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?.....9 And in vain they do worship Me, Teaching as doctrine the commandments of men." (NKJV)

When Jesus said unless one is born of water he cannot enter the kingdom of God; was he expressing God's commandment? (John 3:5)

When men say you have to be born of amniotic fluid to enter the kingdom of God; it that a doctrine of God or a teaching of men?(John 3:5)

How could born of water be anything but water baptism?

When Jesus said unless one is born of water and the Spirit, He was giving requirements in order to enter the kingdom of God.

Being born of water does not mean you have to exist in order to enter the kingdom of God. The existence of men is obvious. Existence is not a term for pardon.


When Jesus said "he who believes will be saved," was He stating a commandment of God? (Mark 16:16)

When Jesus said he said " is baptized will be saved," was He stating a commandment of God? (Mark 16:16)

When men say "men are baptized after they are saved." is that a commandment of God?

When men say " men are baptized as an act of obedience and it is not essential for the forgiveness of sins", is that a doctrine of God or doctrine of men?

WATER BAPTISM OR HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM? By Steve Finnell

Found here. My comments in bold.

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Mr. Finnell must be responding to those of us who are challenging his position on water baptism. Reluctant to enter into a dialogue, he simply creates new posts on his blog where he restates his position, emphatically, without offering anything new. 

I suppose this is easier and safer than actually debating with one's interlocutors. It relieves him of the necessity of the give and take of intellectual exchange. 

I posted an extensive discussion of baptism here, the points of which I shall try to avoid repeating.

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Did Jesus command water baptism or Holy Spirit baptism? There is just one baptism; which did Jesus command? Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, (NASB) (Indeed there is one baptism we are called to. Was it water baptism?)

Matthew 28:16-19 But the eleven disciples...18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, (NASB) (The reader will note that Jesus did not say, "baptizing them in water." One would think that if Jesus was requiring water baptism, He would have been baptizing thousands himself. In fact, Jesus was not a baptizer. "The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples." Jn 4:1-2  

Jesus did not baptize anyone, nor is there any record of Him commanding His disciples to baptize with water. 

Helpfully, John the Baptist tells us what Jesus would do: "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." [Mt. 3:11] This is John the Baptist minimizing his own baptisms and pointing to a better one.

Jesus frequently referred to the Holy Spirit, even indicating that it was better He should go so that the Holy Spirit could come. And, we see the Holy Spirit is important to Jesus, even to the point of Him imparting the Holy Spirit to the disciples: "And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit." Jn. 20:22  

You would have thought he would have baptized them if water baptism was so important, but He didn't. Instead, he pointed to the One he would send. That's where we should look as well.)

PROPHECY-TONGUES-KNOWLEDGE - BY STEVE FINNELL

Avowed cessationist Steve Finnell makes an attempt to explain away the supernatural gifts of the Spirit by using but a single word of Scripture. We chronicle these attempts to defend cessationism from a variety of sources on a regular basis, because we are genuinely seeking a defense of the cessationist view that relies firmly upon Scripture.

So Mr. Finnell takes one word, "perfect," and builds a doctrine that the gifts have ceased because the perfect has come, and this based on what he infers Paul is "likely" talking about. This is thin evidence, indeed, to extrapolate on a word in order to bolster his preconceptions.

That word, "perfect, "teleion, is found 19 times in the N.T., and no instance is the word referring to Scripture:

SUPPLEMENTARY REVELATION? BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. Our comments in bold.
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The author recycles his arguments periodically, presumably because he needs to have something to post. Thus, we have already dealt with his arguments elsewhere.

However, there is a persistent misapprehension present here that is worth discussing. We shall attempt to explore that. 
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Is God supplying additional revelation to express His commands for mankind? No He is not. God has not been adding to His word since the Bible was completed. All of the Scriptures found in Bible were written by 100 A.D.. All that men need to know in order to receive salvation and live the Christian life is found in the Bible. There is no need of SUPPLEMENTARY REVELATION! (The author helpfully includes most every misstatement, non sequitur, and failure of logic in one paragraph. Those are:

1) additional revelation = adding to His word

2) additional revelation = adding to the Bible

3) Bible compiled = revelation ceased

4) additional revelation = additional requirements

It is clear to us that the author is unacquainted with what the charismatics actually believe and teach about the prophetic gift in the modern church. He prefers to discuss characterizations that have nothing to do with the subject in order to vilify those with whom he disagrees.)

ONE WAY ---- JESUS BY STEVE FINNELL

Originally found here. Suspected source material found here.
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(There is a ferocity to those who view their job as "defenders of the true doctrine." They are always vigilant, prowling around looking for the slightest deviation from the faith as they see it, then pouncing with full force upon the heretical.

I'll be the first to admit that there is a lot of false teaching out there, and the forces of apostasy and compromise are clearly gathering against the Church. But our pure doctrine will not save us. Nor will these doctrinal policemen be necessarily commended by the Father. Ours is a life-giving faith, where by the power of the Holy Spirit we live lives of prayer, worship, and The Word.

In the below article we see that the author picks out some targets, and based on third-hand information issues condemnation against certain pastors. I doubt the author has actually done any substantial investigation himself. I doubt that he contacted the ministries in question for clarification. And I doubt that the author is interested in helping these pastors in any way. 

I need to note that I am not posting this to defend these men. But notice the theme adopted by the author, that these men are in error for not knowing the hearts and minds of men. 

Read on:
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The Bible teaches that Jesus is the only way to heaven, the only way to have sins forgiven, the only way to be reconciled to God. Why do so many so-called Christian preachers deny this as the truth?

T.D. Jakes

Question to T. D. Jakes: "Do you feel only Christians could hope to enter Heaven?"

Answer: "When it comes to Heaven, I try to leave that up to God. I certainly believe that Christianity is right, but when it comes to the final test--who goes and who doesn't go -- Jesus said, Other sheep have I who are not of this fold. Them also must I bring. I'll let Him identify who those sheep are and I stay out of the conversation.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him,"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Jesus says He is the only way to Heaven. Preacher Jakes say he has no idea if that is correct. (Pastor Jakes DID NOT say that. He made a very honest observation that it is God's job. Indeed, no one gets to decide who is Christian and who is not. We are not qualified! We might be very surprised at who we find in heaven. Mt. 7:21: “Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." 

And what are we to believe about Abraham? He was not a "Christian." but Paul tells us that same way that we enter heaven, "by faith," is what commended Abraham to God: "This is why 'it was credited to him as righteousness.' The words 'it was credited to him' were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness — for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead." Rom. 4:22-24 

It is clear that the nature and scope of salvation is not so cut-and-dried. Does one need to believe that Jesus died for our sins, and he is the only way to salvation? Yes. Does that mean that thinking you are Christian means you are saved? No. 

One last thing. Jakes said this in 2007. Is there any possibility that Jakes has said something since that might clarify this remark, or show he has evolved on the issue, or perhaps, has changed is viewpoint? Well, we will never know this if the issue is left to the author to discover.)

He cannot say for sure if Jesus is the only way to Heaven. How can a preacher of the gospel not know what Jesus said concerning who is going to Heaven?

Who are the other sheep? (John 10:1-16) The sheep Jesus was talking about were the Jews who were believing and confessing that He was the Son of God. The other sheep are all Gentiles who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

The sheep of Jesus (Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.) The sheep of Jesus are all who accept Him as the Son of God, Lord and Savior. All converted Jews and Gentiles are the sheep of Jesus.

Joel Osteen

(I offer no defense of Osteen's squishy lack of certainty.) Larry King question: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

Joel Osteen: You know I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know...

Larry King: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong aren't they?

Joel Osteen: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know about their religions. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to a relationship with Jesus.

John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jesus said those who do not believe have already been judged. Joel Osteen says He doesn't know if non-believers will go to heaven or not. Joel says he does not know if they wrong in their unbelief.

Billy Graham

Robert Schuller: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

Billy Graham: well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ...I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ, because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven."

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides in him"

The Apostle John said that the that wrath of God abides in those who do not believe in Jesus and who do not obey Him. Billy Graham disagrees. (That remains to be seen. Inelegantly expressed, perhaps, but it is clear that Graham believes that there are people who might not seem like Christians, yet they believe and are saved.) Who are you going to trust?

You will notice that preachers who deny that Jesus is the only way to heaven say. "I do not know if Jesus is the only way, but I think I know more of the truth than God."

John 8:24 'Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.''

Jesus said men will die in theirs if they do not confess Him. Some preachers say, I don't think so.

Mark 16:16 He who has believed and been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

A question remains, did those who proclaimed that Jesus is not the only way to heaven stop believing Jesus was the only way, first or did they declare that water baptism was not essential to be saved, first?

The gospel should be based on what the Bible teaches, what Jesus said, what the apostles taught. The gospel of what MEN think is no gospel at all!

TONGUES AND SALVATION? - BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. Our comments in bold.

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It is unfortunate that we are forced to rebut this man again. He seems to mean well. As such, we have no intention of piling on a brother in Christ for his errant views, but when all the world can see your post, you better make sure that you aren't embarrassing yourself.
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There is a view that salvation has to be validated by the evidence of speaking in tongues. (We are not aware of a significant number of people who equate salvation with speaking in tongues. However, many charismatics do suggest that that baptism of the Holy Spirit is evidenced by speaking in tongues. We hold neither of these views. Our position is that salvation, the filling of the Holy Spirit, and any variety of gifts imparted, can and and do occur at separate times.) 

INHERIT ORIGINAL SIN? - BY STEVE FINNELL

Originally found here. Reproduced here for fair use and discussion purposes. My comments in bold.
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(I covered the author's previous missive about this very same subject here. We are revisiting this because the author makes some new assertions worthy of examination.
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If the false doctrine of original sin is true how would Christian parents pass it on to their children? (I really don't think the author actually understands the doctrine of fallen creation, as I prefer to call it. As I noted before, all of creation was corrupted by the sin of Adam [Rom. 8:20-22], and Jesus' sacrifice reversed the curse of the law: "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us..." Ga. 3:13

So his question becomes nonsensical, because everyone is born as a fallen man and is in need of redemption from the curse.) 


Ephesians 5:25-27...just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish. (NKJV)

How would it be possible for the church to be holy without blemish and be able to pass the inherited guilt of Adam's sin to children of Christian parents? (Persisting in his nonsensical questioning, the author extends his scope to include the entire Body of Christ. Making the "problem" bigger doesn't change the answer.)

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said , "Behold The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! (NKJV)

Does Jesus take away all sin except original sin? He did not die for original sin. Original sin inherited by men is not found in the Bible. (Going from nonsensical to the ridiculous, the author bifurcates sin into categories as if Christ died for one kind of sin but not another. However, there is no need to make these artificial distinctions. In Rom. 3:19-28, Paul gives us the nature of sin, the universality of sin, how we came to know that we are sinners, and the remedy for sin: 

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no-one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. 

"He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished — he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law."

What the author doesn't seem to understand is that sin is a condition, a state of being. It is not only what we do or think or believe. It is our nature as part of fallen creation.) 

ARE MEN CREATED TOTALLY DEPRAVED? - BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. Reproduced here for fair use and discussion purposes. My comments in bold.

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According to Calvinism all men are born guilty of the sin of Adam, and therefore are born totally depraved. (We note here the first assertion: Men are born depraved because of the sin of Adam. However, this assertion is different than his title question. there is a difference between being born and being created.)

Psalms 139:13 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. 14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. (NASB)

God did not create David totally depraved. God does not create people guilty of sin in the womb of their mother. (So, the first Scripture offered as proof that men are not born totally depraved does not speak of sin, it speaks of the wonder of creation. Interestingly, David himself was able to make that distinction: "Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.” - Ps 51:5)

Genesis 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. (NASB)

God's image is not that of a totally depraved person that is guilty of sin. God is still creating men today in His image. (OK, so the second Scripture offered tells us we have been made in the image of God. That is, we have a spiritual nature, created by God, which reflects His nature. But something happened after that, when corruption entered the world after Adam and Eve sinned. 

All of creation fell, not just man himself: "Ge. 3:17b: “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life." And Ro. 8:20-22: "For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time."

Even Paul recognized he was a slave to this fallen nature: 

Ro. 7:18 "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what good, but I cannot carry it out."

It was Christ who redeemed us, not just by taking our sin, but also dealing with the curse of the law: 

Ga. 3:13: "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.'" [Deut. 21:23] 

Jesus' death that reversed the curse, and His resurrection that gives us life in His presence: 

Re. 22:3: "No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him."

We see this over and over in Scripture, that death came through Adam, and life through Christ:

Ro. 7:5: "For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,  the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death."

Ro. 8:3: "For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man..."

1 Co. 15:21-22: "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a ma n. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive." 

Ga. 5:24: "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."

Col. 2:13-15: "When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having cancelled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

We therefore are commanded to take off the sinful nature and live in the new life we've been given:

Col. 3:9-10: "Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator."

Ro. 8:13-14 "For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."