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The author once again is completely reluctant to enter into discussion, preferring to either ignore those who comment on his site, or to create entirely new posts which simply restate his original opinion. He never responds directly to anyone.
In addition, I note there is an alarming paucity of "redeeming" topics on his site. You will find many posts about water baptism, original sin, cessationism, and other nit-picky doctrinal issues, but precious little about leading a Christian life, worship, or prayer, for example.
So this latest post is simply a rehash of his objections to original sin, complete with the same misunderstandings, unsupported assertions, and misinterpretations. Read on:
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To prove that all men are guilty of sin at conception and therefore born as sinners; original sin proponents quote David in Psalm 51:5. (Which is not the only verse available to quote.)
David Quote: Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. (NKJV)
Was David born into a sinful world? Yes. Was David's mother guilty of sin? Yes. Was David guilty of his mother's sin. No. Was David spiritually condemned because of the sin of Adam and Eve? No. David died physically because of Adam's sin. Men die spiritually because of sins they themselves commit. (This is typical rhetoric from the author. He begins by subtly twisting the position of those he disagrees with, then comes a summary denial with no proof or evidence offered.
His error is his view of sin. He defines it as "bad things people do" as opposed to the biblical teaching that sin is the state of fallen man. He further errs by his supposition that God is incapable of causing bad things. But we read in Ps. 119:75" "I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me." God causes calamity, he hardened Pharaoh's heart, and He "causes men to stumble..." Is. 8:14. God is so much more than the binary creature envisioned by the author.)
To prove that all men are guilty of sin at conception and therefore born as sinners; original sin proponents quote David in Psalm 51:5. (Which is not the only verse available to quote.)
David Quote: Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. (NKJV)
Was David born into a sinful world? Yes. Was David's mother guilty of sin? Yes. Was David guilty of his mother's sin. No. Was David spiritually condemned because of the sin of Adam and Eve? No. David died physically because of Adam's sin. Men die spiritually because of sins they themselves commit. (This is typical rhetoric from the author. He begins by subtly twisting the position of those he disagrees with, then comes a summary denial with no proof or evidence offered.
His error is his view of sin. He defines it as "bad things people do" as opposed to the biblical teaching that sin is the state of fallen man. He further errs by his supposition that God is incapable of causing bad things. But we read in Ps. 119:75" "I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me." God causes calamity, he hardened Pharaoh's heart, and He "causes men to stumble..." Is. 8:14. God is so much more than the binary creature envisioned by the author.)
DOES GOD CREATE SINNERS IN THE WOMB? (The author proceeds to conflate "create" with "born.")
God hates sin.
David Quote: Psalm 139:1,13,14 O Lord...13 For You have formed my inward parts;You have covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And I know my soul knows very well.(NKJV)
God does not create sinners in the womb. God hates sin. How could David be wonderfully made in his mother's womb and at the same time be be created a guilty sinner? (Again, the author doesn't understand the difference between what God creates and what proceeds out of God's creation. Extending the author's logic, sin cannot actually exist at all because everything God creates is good. So how can there be sin?
The author is actually using a variant of the argument atheists use to suggest God doesn't exist, that is, the Problem of Evil. The atheist, like Mr. Finnell, seems to believe that God and evil cannot exist at the same time. Evil is apart from God. The atheist concludes that God doesn't exist, while Mr. Finnell claims in essence that evil doesn't exist, at least, it doesn't exist until the baby commits its first sin.)
Genesis 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have gotten a man from the Lord."(NKJV)
Did God help Eve conceive a sinner in the womb? Of course not. God hates sin. Cain became a sinner by choice. (Is this any different of a situation than saying God created Cain knowing he would sin? The same eventuality occurred. In either case, Cain was a sinner.
God hates sin.
David Quote: Psalm 139:1,13,14 O Lord...13 For You have formed my inward parts;You have covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And I know my soul knows very well.(NKJV)
God does not create sinners in the womb. God hates sin. How could David be wonderfully made in his mother's womb and at the same time be be created a guilty sinner? (Again, the author doesn't understand the difference between what God creates and what proceeds out of God's creation. Extending the author's logic, sin cannot actually exist at all because everything God creates is good. So how can there be sin?
The author is actually using a variant of the argument atheists use to suggest God doesn't exist, that is, the Problem of Evil. The atheist, like Mr. Finnell, seems to believe that God and evil cannot exist at the same time. Evil is apart from God. The atheist concludes that God doesn't exist, while Mr. Finnell claims in essence that evil doesn't exist, at least, it doesn't exist until the baby commits its first sin.)
Genesis 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have gotten a man from the Lord."(NKJV)
Did God help Eve conceive a sinner in the womb? Of course not. God hates sin. Cain became a sinner by choice. (Is this any different of a situation than saying God created Cain knowing he would sin? The same eventuality occurred. In either case, Cain was a sinner.
Mr. Finnell simply wants to create a different point at which sin arrives. For what purpose? What does he hope to achieve? It's this kind of futility resulting from splitting hairs that is so puzzling. He has written post after post about "original sin," yet in the final analysis, it doesn't matter. Every person who has walked the earth has committed sin, save one.)
Was John the Baptist a sinner in the womb? No, he was not. (We can ask, "when did he become a sinner?" Well, it doesn't matter. We end up in the same place either way.)
Luke 1:13,15, ....you shall call his name John. 15 "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.
Are men filled with the Holy Spirit if they are sinners in the womb? No, they are not. John the Baptist was not guilty of original sin in his mother's womb nor is anyone else. (The question is begged, for how can men be filled with the Holy Spirit at all? By his criteria, the unborn baby's innocence is the overriding factor. But a few years later, after sinning a bunch, John the baptist becomes a great prophet. How is this possible, unless innocence is irrelevant to being filled with the Holy Spirit?
Was John the Baptist a sinner in the womb? No, he was not. (We can ask, "when did he become a sinner?" Well, it doesn't matter. We end up in the same place either way.)
Luke 1:13,15, ....you shall call his name John. 15 "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.
Are men filled with the Holy Spirit if they are sinners in the womb? No, they are not. John the Baptist was not guilty of original sin in his mother's womb nor is anyone else. (The question is begged, for how can men be filled with the Holy Spirit at all? By his criteria, the unborn baby's innocence is the overriding factor. But a few years later, after sinning a bunch, John the baptist becomes a great prophet. How is this possible, unless innocence is irrelevant to being filled with the Holy Spirit?
In fact, we know this is true. King Saul, who God had rejected, prophesied when the Spirit of the Lord came upon him: 1Sa. 19:23 "So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even upon him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth.” Caiaphas also did so: Jn. 11:51 "He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he
prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation..." It clearly doesn't matter the state of sinfulness in the eyes of God. It does matter in the eyes of Mr. Finnell.)
Are little children sinners in the womb? No, they are not.
Jesus Quote: Matthew 18:3 and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.(NKJV)
Was Jesus saying, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven you must be guilty of sin in the womb and born sinners like little children. (This is exactly like saying in order to become a successful rock singer you need to do drugs. The author takes one thing and arbitrarily combines it with another, totally irrelevant thing, and then asserts an absurdity. He might just as well say, "In order to enter the kingdom of heaven you must become physically small like a child.")
Of course not. You must be free from sin as little children. Little children were not born as sinners nor are they guilty of committing sins. Little children are trusting souls; and adults must trust Jesus. (Is this really what this passage is teaching, that children are sinless?)
ORIGINAL SIN IS NOT MENTIONED SCRIPTURE NOR IS THE CONCEPT OF ORIGINAL SIN PRESENTED. (The word "rapture" isn't mentioned either. Nor "trinity." Nor "cessationism." "Dispensationalism." So the appearance or absence of certain words is an irrelevancy.
ORIGINAL SIN IS NOT MENTIONED SCRIPTURE NOR IS THE CONCEPT OF ORIGINAL SIN PRESENTED. (The word "rapture" isn't mentioned either. Nor "trinity." Nor "cessationism." "Dispensationalism." So the appearance or absence of certain words is an irrelevancy.
But what about the concept? Is the concept of fallen creation present in Scripture? Perhaps the author could explain this passage:
Ro. 5:11-21: "Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned — for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
"Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
"Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
"For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
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