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It's unfortunate that Ms. Lesley is becoming a frequent guest on our blog. She has frequently written about what women aren't allowed to do in Church, so much so that she has created dozens of micro-doctrines to cover every possible circumstance.
It's unfortunate that Ms. Lesley is becoming a frequent guest on our blog. She has frequently written about what women aren't allowed to do in Church, so much so that she has created dozens of micro-doctrines to cover every possible circumstance.
Today's post is another example, this time to discuss women teaching in a nursing home.
Originally published January 22, 2018:
The Mailbag: Men attending women’s Bible study class at nursing home
A female relative of mine teaches a women’s Bible study at a Catholic nursing home (my relative is a Protestant Christian). Sometimes, a male resident or two – none of whom are saved – will wander in and attend her class. Occasionally, one of them attempts to correct her according to Catholic doctrine. Even though she’s not technically teaching “in the church” (1 Timothy 2:12) she’s uncomfortable with men attending the class, as well as with having to biblically correct their unscriptural Catholic doctrine. On the other hand, she shares the gospel every time she teaches, and she doesn’t want to turn away anyone who might receive the good news and be saved. What should she do?
I love it when Christians think deeply about issues like this. (This is what Ms. Lesley considers deep thinking. The questioner is uncomfortable because of what she has been taught regarding 1 Timothy 2:12. But this is not deep thinking, it's uncertainty that comes as a result of doctrinal parsing. Let's quote the verse, since Ms. Lesley doesn't bother. 1Ti. 2:12:
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
With this short verse before us, let's consider Ms. Lesley's response.)
It is encouraging to interact with godly people who want to be obedient to Christ, and it pushes me to desire to obey Him better myself.
Foreword:
Just to lay a quick foundation for my answer to this question, it needs to be understood that people who currently believe and practice Catholic doctrine as it is written in Catholic documents are not saved. (That is, somehow Ms. Lesley knows who is saved and who is not, based solely on correct doctrine. However, correct doctrine does not save anyone, nor does incorrect doctrine speak to anyone's salvation.)
There are numerous unbiblical beliefs Catholics hold to (which I will not go into right now because that’s beyond the scope of this article) but for the purposes of understanding my answer, in a nutshell, the Catholic religion does not teach salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (in fact, Catholicism anathematizes {condemns to Hell} anyone who teaches this), works must be included in the salvation process. (This is largely correct, but irrelevant.)
If you believe your own good works play any part in earning your salvation, you are not saved. (This is incorrect. Wrong or mistaken beliefs do not speak to salvation.)
Salvation is all of Christ, and Christ alone. (Yes, indeed. Note she did not write that salvation is correct doctrine, and correct doctrine alone.)
(...)
If you’re unclear as to why having men in her Bible study class is a dilemma for the female teacher, I’d encourage you to read these two articles before moving on to my answer:
Jill in the Pulpit (We analyzed this article here.)
(...)
If you’re unclear as to why having men in her Bible study class is a dilemma for the female teacher, I’d encourage you to read these two articles before moving on to my answer:
Jill in the Pulpit (We analyzed this article here.)
Rock Your Role FAQs (this article expands on my brief comments below) (We analyzed this article here.)
Here are my thoughts on the issue:
1. If the people attending the study are Catholic, then the female teacher is evangelizing the lost outside of the church, not discipling (teaching) Believers who are the church, (The first parse: Ms. Lesley says evangelism isn't discipling. However, she does not explain why evangelism isn't discipling.
Further, a disciple is basically a learner. If an unsaved person "learns" that he is a sinner needing salvation, he has been "taught" this truth and is in fact being discipled.
Lastly, 1 Timothy 2:12 doesn't address this. In fact, there is no Bible verse that tells us that women evangelizing is permitted because it is not teaching. This is something Ms. Lesley simply made up.)
unless some of those attending the study have gotten saved (the question indicates none of the male “drop ins” are saved). (Hmm. This moral certainty about the salvation status of individuals is unjustified. This means that she is counseling her questioner to assume certain people aren't saved which means she can teach them. This is simply rhetorical gymnastics.)
Evangelism falls under the “do” of the Great Commission, not the “don’t” of 1 Timothy 2:12. (see #11)
2. We always have to keep the definition of “church” in mind when we’re talking about women teaching or holding authority over men “in the church.” (1 Timothy 2:12 doesn't mention "in the church." This is another parse, that women cannot teach men in the church but can teach them outside the church. But there is no Bible verse that says such a thing.
2. We always have to keep the definition of “church” in mind when we’re talking about women teaching or holding authority over men “in the church.” (1 Timothy 2:12 doesn't mention "in the church." This is another parse, that women cannot teach men in the church but can teach them outside the church. But there is no Bible verse that says such a thing.
It's likely Ms. Lesley is trying to combine two passages, 1Ti. 2:12 and 1Cor. 14:34, which reads,
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
Even a casual Bible student would notice that these two passages are in two different writings with two different contexts and two different applications. Combining them to establish a doctrine is unadvised.)
The gathered body of Believers is the church, not the building in which they meet. The mere fact that a group meets in a nursing home, house, park, community center, or other edifice that isn’t a church building doesn’t automatically mean a woman is free to teach men (see #7). It doesn’t automatically mean she can’t teach them either.
3. If the male attendees are being disruptive and introducing false doctrine, the teacher is well within her biblical rights and wisdom to say that this a women’s only group and exclude the men. (The same would apply to excluding any women who behave the same way.) (Finally Ms. Lesley discusses the relevant factor at work here. If a woman is uncomfortable in any situation, the proper response is to exclude the offenders.)
4. If, at some point, genuinely regenerated men begin attending the class because they want to be taught the Bible, praise God! The best case scenario would be for the teacher to go to her pastor, explain the dilemma, and have him ask one of the associate pastors, elders, or another appropriate male church member to volunteer to teach the men. (There we are, a set of rules regarding a specific application of her false doctrine, to add to her growing rulebook on what women cannot do in every conceivable situation. Sad.)
3. If the male attendees are being disruptive and introducing false doctrine, the teacher is well within her biblical rights and wisdom to say that this a women’s only group and exclude the men. (The same would apply to excluding any women who behave the same way.) (Finally Ms. Lesley discusses the relevant factor at work here. If a woman is uncomfortable in any situation, the proper response is to exclude the offenders.)
4. If, at some point, genuinely regenerated men begin attending the class because they want to be taught the Bible, praise God! The best case scenario would be for the teacher to go to her pastor, explain the dilemma, and have him ask one of the associate pastors, elders, or another appropriate male church member to volunteer to teach the men. (There we are, a set of rules regarding a specific application of her false doctrine, to add to her growing rulebook on what women cannot do in every conceivable situation. Sad.)
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