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Ms. Lesley makes her case according to the traditional understanding of these passages, but does not consult the Greek. Nor does she examine her assumptions or add anything original. She simply parrots the traditional line of thinking, assuming it is correct.
Ms. Lesley makes her case according to the traditional understanding of these passages, but does not consult the Greek. Nor does she examine her assumptions or add anything original. She simply parrots the traditional line of thinking, assuming it is correct.
It's not.
In addition, she barely manages to quote Scripture. This is an unfortunate prevalent tendency among the Doctrinal Police.
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Rock Your Role is a series examining the “go to” and hot button Scriptures that relate to and help us understand our role as women in the church. Don’t forget to prayerfully consider our three key questions as you read.
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Timothy 2:11-12
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As always, we must examine every biblical passage in context, which means we need to start off by understanding a little background about the book and its author, and by reading the whole chapter.
First Timothy (along with 2 Timothy and Titus) is one of the pastoral epistles. It was written by Paul to young pastor Timothy (The author begins her exposition with a false claim. Timothy was not a pastor. Paul tells us what Timothy was doing in this church:
Rock Your Role is a series examining the “go to” and hot button Scriptures that relate to and help us understand our role as women in the church. Don’t forget to prayerfully consider our three key questions as you read.
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Timothy 2:11-12
(...)
As always, we must examine every biblical passage in context, which means we need to start off by understanding a little background about the book and its author, and by reading the whole chapter.
First Timothy (along with 2 Timothy and Titus) is one of the pastoral epistles. It was written by Paul to young pastor Timothy (The author begins her exposition with a false claim. Timothy was not a pastor. Paul tells us what Timothy was doing in this church:
1Ti. 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer...
1Ti. 3:14-15 “Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
Nowhere is Timothy described as a pastor or leader of this church. He was actually a valued associate of Paul, who labored alongside him, went to various churches on assignments, and generally did his bidding.
Ac. 17:15: “The men who escorted Paul brought him to Athens and then left with instructions for Silas and Timothy to join him as soon as possible.”Timothy was sent to various places at Paul’s behest:
1Co. 4:17: “For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.”Some of Paul’s epistles were co-written with Timothy:
Ph. 1:1 “Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi…”Paul commends Timothy to the Philippian church:
Ph. 2:22 “But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.”Paul was planning to come himself, and the purpose of his instructions was to help Timothy deal with this particular church until Paul arrived.
1Ti. 4:13: “ Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.”Paul points out to Timothy that it is the elders who lead the church:
1Ti. 5:17 “The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.”And lastly, Paul counsels Timothy that Paul has trusted him with the assignment. Paul wants Timothy to keep the church intact and on the right path.
1 Ti. 6:20 “Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care.”
In sum, there isn’t a single passage that indicates that Timothy was pastor or head of this particular church. Rather, Timothy was on assignment from Paul as a young church planter charged with setting up elders and correcting doctrine in this church, and Paul was advising him how to do it until he was able to join him later.)
as sort of a job description and operations manual for pastors, elders, and the church. (No, this is not correct. The word "pastor" is not mentioned. These are instructions specific to Timothy in his assignment to encourage him, to correct this church, and to establish its leadership. We certainly can gain insight as to how a church ought to be arranged, but it isn't an instruction manual directed to pastors.)
So right off the bat, an important point we often miss about 1 Timothy is that it was written to a man, Timothy, a pastor, who would use this letter to train his elders (also men) and, subsequently, his congregation. (They are not "his" elders or "his" congregation. Paul tells Timothy who is in charge of the church:
1Ti. 5:17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.
The elders are to govern the church, not Timothy.)
That doesn’t mean that 1 Timothy doesn’t apply to women, or shouldn’t be studied by women, or that women aren’t required to obey 1 Timothy. It just means that when we open the letter of 1 Timothy, we need to understand that we, as women, are reading somebody else’s mail. Mail that pertains to us, yes, but mail that’s addressed to Timothy, and by extension, to pastors and elders today. (Timothy never mentions pastors. And we certainly know that since Timothy was not a pastor, Paul's admonitions and instruction to him have nothing to do with pastors today.)
That will help us better understand the tone and perspective of the passage.
The focal verse of this chapter is verse 4
God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Everything else Paul talks about in chapter 2 revolves around the idea that God wants to save people. He wants the church to pray for people, (There is no instructions for the church in chapter 2. The word isn't even mentioned. There is no gathering of the brethren mentioned here.
Paul does not begin to discuss church structure and practice until chapter 3.)
including governmental officials so that they will be saved. Paul was appointed a preacher and apostle so that people might be saved. Men shouldn’t detract from the gospel by quarreling or anger so that people can be saved. Women’s attire should not distract from the preaching of the gospel, and their good works should point people to the gospel so that people can be saved. (Paul does not connect preaching of the gospel to these things.)
And, finally – an exhortation to men – Timothy and the elders are to allow women to be taught the gospel so that they might be saved. See that word “let” right there at the beginning of verse 11? (1Ti. 2:11 is what Ms. Lesley is referring to.
And, finally – an exhortation to men – Timothy and the elders are to allow women to be taught the gospel so that they might be saved. See that word “let” right there at the beginning of verse 11? (1Ti. 2:11 is what Ms. Lesley is referring to.
The word "let" does not appear in the Greek. It is found in the ESV translation, but other translations get it correct:
NIV: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
NAS: A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.)
Timothy and the elders have the responsibility to step up and make sure women are allowed to come into the church and be taught the gospel. (Wow, this woman purports to be a teacher of the Word? We are only a few paragraphs in and have found multiple errors.
There is nothing here about "allow." There is nothing here about "taught." The word "learn" is manthanó a. universally: absolutely, to increase one's knowledge, 1 Timothy 2:11
The author infers something completely foreign to the text, and runs with it like it was a doctrine.)
That’s something we take for granted now, but in a time when women were routinely regarded with the same value and intelligence as a stick of furniture or the family cow, this was huge. This just reinforces what we learned from Galatians 3:28: everybody is welcome at God’s table. There are no second class citizens in God’s kingdom. God wants to save women, too. We modern women rarely appreciate how precious this concept would have been to first century women hungry to know and be known by God. And the men were to make sure it happened.
But, as Jesus said, “to whom much was given, of [her] much will be required.” The men had the responsibility to make sure women were taught God’s word (This is a completely false conclusion that has no Scriptural backing at all. All this from the word "let," which is an addition to the text.
This is why we have determined Ms. Lesley to be an incompetent Bible teacher.)
so they could be saved and grow spiritually, but the women had the responsibility to listen, learn, and conduct themselves in a way that would not hinder others (or even themselves) from learning and hearing the gospel. (Again Ms. Lesley repeats her false assertion that this is done to not hinder others from hearing the gospel. This concept is not found in the text.)
Paul goes on to explain in verse 12 what he means by “quietly with all submissiveness”: Women are not to teach men or exercise authority over them. (The Greek is not plural, nor are most English translations: "A man." "A woman.")
Paul goes on to explain in verse 12 what he means by “quietly with all submissiveness”: Women are not to teach men or exercise authority over them. (The Greek is not plural, nor are most English translations: "A man." "A woman.")
In the first century church, this would have been relatively easy to understand, since church services were fairly simple and didn’t include programs, parachurch organizations, Christian conferences, etc. But in our day, perhaps a little more explanation would be helpful. (Wow Ms. Lesley wants to explain. She continues on by parroting the traditional view of this passage. Let's quote it again:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.We have discussed this passage in depth here.)
Teaching includes any situation in the gathering of the body of Christ (No gathering is mentioned here.)
in which women would be giving instruction to men in the Scriptures (Instruction in the Scriptures is not mentioned here.)
and/or on spiritual matters (Spiritual matters is not mentioned here.)
(which, in a biblical church gathering, would necessarily include Scripture), (Scripture is not mentioned here.)
whether in an official position of teacher (pastor, teaching elder, Sunday School/Bible study teacher, or other leadership position) or any other situation requiring exhorting, teaching, or explaining of the Scriptures. (None of this is mentioned here.
The author makes several undocumented claims without even bothering to explain them.)
Exercising authority includes any official position (pastor, pastoral positions, certain committee positions, elder, teacher, director, or other leadership position) (Exercising authority in a church is not mentioned here.)
Exercising authority includes any official position (pastor, pastoral positions, certain committee positions, elder, teacher, director, or other leadership position) (Exercising authority in a church is not mentioned here.)
or other situation which places a woman in charge of, over, or responsible for men or places men in a role subordinate to a woman.
But why? Why would God reserve the positions of teaching and authority over male or mixed groups to men? (The author blatantly ignores the text.
But why? Why would God reserve the positions of teaching and authority over male or mixed groups to men? (The author blatantly ignores the text.
1Ti. 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man...
"A man." Not a "mixed group." The verbiage is singular.)
He gives two reasons in verses 13-14. God’s design for male headship, and Eve’s deception and sin.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve– Starting with Creation (not the Fall), God began laying out the pattern of male headship in the foundational institutions of His kingdom: Creation, the family, and the church. Man was created first, woman second. Man was given authority over Creation, woman was specifically created for him, to be his helper. We also see male headship in the family. God requires husbands to take the primary leadership role and wives to submit to and respect their husbands.
And, finally, we see God’s design for male headship in the church, (There is no mention of male headship of a church.)
For Adam was formed first, then Eve– Starting with Creation (not the Fall), God began laying out the pattern of male headship in the foundational institutions of His kingdom: Creation, the family, and the church. Man was created first, woman second. Man was given authority over Creation, woman was specifically created for him, to be his helper. We also see male headship in the family. God requires husbands to take the primary leadership role and wives to submit to and respect their husbands.
And, finally, we see God’s design for male headship in the church, (There is no mention of male headship of a church.)
not only in overt passages like 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 14, the description of qualifications for pastors and elders, and the precedent of male leadership in the Old Testament temple, but also in the beautiful picture of Christ, the bridegroom, as head of the church, His bride, who lovingly submits to Him. Starting with the very first man and woman, before sin entered the world, God initiated a pattern of male leadership.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor– Here, Paul reminds us that, when Eve listened to the serpent, she stepped out from under her husband’s oversight, was deceived, and sinned. Eve’s sin reminds us that she not only was deceived into rebelling against God’s command about eating the fruit, but she also broke His design for male headship in marriage. In establishing male leadership in the church, God is recalling, reflecting, and restoring His pattern of male headship that started in the Garden.
But I’ve been taught that 1 Timothy 2:12 only applied to the particular time and culture in which it was written.
No, that’s not the case. We’ve just seen that clearly spelled out in verses 13-14. God explains exactly why He’s delegating the teaching of men, and authority over men, to men. There’s nothing in these two verses that even hint that this command is temporary or restricted to the women in the first century Ephesian church. The first reason was the Creative order – Adam was formed first, then Eve. The second reason is that Eve was deceived. Both of those reasons are universal (applying to all women and churches everywhere regardless of era or culture). It makes no sense that these two reasons related to Eve would apply only to first century Ephesus any more than it would make sense for them to apply only to tenth century Damascus or seventeenth century Paris.
Next, again, we examine the context of 1 Timothy 2. There are all sorts of instructions to the church in that chapter. Was the instruction to pray for governmental leaders (1-2) limited to the first century Ephesian church? (There is no mention of church order.)
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor– Here, Paul reminds us that, when Eve listened to the serpent, she stepped out from under her husband’s oversight, was deceived, and sinned. Eve’s sin reminds us that she not only was deceived into rebelling against God’s command about eating the fruit, but she also broke His design for male headship in marriage. In establishing male leadership in the church, God is recalling, reflecting, and restoring His pattern of male headship that started in the Garden.
But I’ve been taught that 1 Timothy 2:12 only applied to the particular time and culture in which it was written.
No, that’s not the case. We’ve just seen that clearly spelled out in verses 13-14. God explains exactly why He’s delegating the teaching of men, and authority over men, to men. There’s nothing in these two verses that even hint that this command is temporary or restricted to the women in the first century Ephesian church. The first reason was the Creative order – Adam was formed first, then Eve. The second reason is that Eve was deceived. Both of those reasons are universal (applying to all women and churches everywhere regardless of era or culture). It makes no sense that these two reasons related to Eve would apply only to first century Ephesus any more than it would make sense for them to apply only to tenth century Damascus or seventeenth century Paris.
Next, again, we examine the context of 1 Timothy 2. There are all sorts of instructions to the church in that chapter. Was the instruction to pray for governmental leaders (1-2) limited to the first century Ephesian church? (There is no mention of church order.)
Were only the men of the first century Ephesian church to pray without quarreling (8)? (There is no mention of church order.)
Was modesty (9-10) only required of women in the first century Ephesian church? (There is no mention of church order.)
Then why pick out this one instruction in verse 12 and claim it was limited to that time and culture? (Why pick out a verse and make it an issue of church order?)
Finally, look at the overall general pattern of male headship and leadership in Scripture. First human created? A man. The Patriarchs? As the word implies – all men. Priests, Levites, Scribes? Men. Heads of the twelve tribes of Israel? Men. Major and minor prophets? Men. All kings of Israel and Judah? Men. Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, and Davidic Covenants? All established between God and men. Authors of Scripture? Men. The forerunner of Christ? John the Baptist – a man. Messiah? A man. All of the apostles? Men. All of the pastors, elders, and deacons of churches in the New Testament? Men. (There is no biblical command for deacons to be men only. She is probably referring to 1Ti. 3:8:
Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
"Are to be men" does not appear in the Greek.)
Founder and head of the church? Christ – a man. Leader and head of the family? Men. Now which fits better with this pattern, women preaching to, teaching, and exercising authority over men in the church, (The author appears to think that preaching and teaching are both exercising authority. There is no evidence in Scripture that this is true. In addition, the Greek in 1 Timothy 2:12 shows each item to be separate in series, which means teaching is not exercising authority.)
or women not preaching to, teaching, and exercising authority over men in the church?
But what about women in the Bible who served in leadership roles like Deborah, Esther, or Priscilla? Doesn’t that mean it’s OK for women to preach, teach men, and exercise authority over men in the church?
No it doesn’t. The Bible does not contradict itself because its author, the Holy Spirit, doesn’t contradict Himself. If you’d like to read more about how Deborah, Esther, Priscilla and other women of the Bible were actually acting in obedience to God’s role for women, please read my article Rock Your Role: Oh No She Di-int! Priscilla Didn’t Preach, Deborah Didn’t Dominate, and Esther Wasn’t an Egalitarian.
But I’ve been told it’s OK for women to teach co-ed Bible classes or preach to co-ed audiences as long as they don’t hold the office of pastor and as long as they’re preaching/teaching “under the authority” of their husband and/or pastor.
No, that’s not OK with Scripture. First Timothy 3 and Titus 1 restrict the office of pastor to biblically qualified men, (Neither First Timothy 3 nor Titus 1 are about pastors.)
But what about women in the Bible who served in leadership roles like Deborah, Esther, or Priscilla? Doesn’t that mean it’s OK for women to preach, teach men, and exercise authority over men in the church?
No it doesn’t. The Bible does not contradict itself because its author, the Holy Spirit, doesn’t contradict Himself. If you’d like to read more about how Deborah, Esther, Priscilla and other women of the Bible were actually acting in obedience to God’s role for women, please read my article Rock Your Role: Oh No She Di-int! Priscilla Didn’t Preach, Deborah Didn’t Dominate, and Esther Wasn’t an Egalitarian.
But I’ve been told it’s OK for women to teach co-ed Bible classes or preach to co-ed audiences as long as they don’t hold the office of pastor and as long as they’re preaching/teaching “under the authority” of their husband and/or pastor.
No, that’s not OK with Scripture. First Timothy 3 and Titus 1 restrict the office of pastor to biblically qualified men, (Neither First Timothy 3 nor Titus 1 are about pastors.)
but, as we’ve seen in this article, 1 Timothy 2:12 prohibits women from carrying out two of the functions of pastors (preaching/teaching the Bible to men, (Preaching/teaching is not a role of the pastor.)
and exercising authority over men) as well, and neither 1 Timothy 2 nor any other passage of Scripture gives husbands or pastors the authority to grant women permission to violate God’s Word. For more information on this question, see my article Fencing off the Forbidden Fruit Tree.
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