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Those who have "discernment ministries' (actually, these are not actual ministries, they are mostly a single individual with a blog and a sour disposition) have a tendency to find heresy under every rock. They have severe and exacting standards, and anyone that violates a single jot or tittle from their micro doctrines is cast into the outer darkness. We have deemed these folks the doctrinal police.
Ms. Lesley has been bestowed this honor more than once in our blog, so much so that we have awarded her her own tag.
Today we are posting Ms. Lesley's standards for being able to recommend a church. Astonishingly, there are 14 requirements, some of which exclude entire denominations. Remember, these are the criteria for her to be able to recommend a local church.
Ms. Lesley doesn't quote a single word of Scripture. We must deem this Bad Bible Teaching.
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I really need your help with preliminary vetting here, readers. Please carefully read and follow the guidelines and instructions below so your recommendation won’t be deleted or rejected. You must have a personal connection (ex: you’re a member or recent former member, you know the pastor personally, etc.) to the church you’re recommending...
The following types of churches, church search engines, and church planting organizations will not be added to the list (due to doctrinal or other issues)1:
6. Any church that believes/teaches a genuinely regenerated Christian can lose or forfeit his salvation (Again, a doctrine that has been discussed and debated by honest interlocutors for centuries. Obviously Ms. Lesley is on one side of the debate, but her rejection of faithful Christians and churches on the other side doesn't make sense, since this doctrine is irrelevant to living an obedient and fruitful Christian life. It a doctrine that simply doesn't make any difference.
10. Any church that uses or recommends books and materials from false teachers. This includes churches recommending, affiliated with, or financially supporting The Gospel Coalition, CRU, or any other parachurch organization which platforms false teachers, and/or is egalitarian, woke, compromises on the Bible’s teaching on gender/sexuality, etc. (Our response is the same as item 9.)
11. Any church that violates Scripture’s teaching on the role of women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-3:7). This includes, but is not necessarily limited to: churches with a female bearing the title of “pastor” (of anything) or “elder,” churches which allow women to function in pastoral roles without the title of pastor / elder (for example: female ministers of music or worship leaders; discipleship “facilitators” or “directors” who essentially function as elders / associate pastors, and so on), churches which allow women to preach to, hold unbiblical authority over, or instruct men or co-ed groups in the Scriptures (for example: teaching / co-teaching co-ed adult Sunday School / Bible study classes or home / small groups). (Ms. Lesley holds a doctrinal position based entirely on a church tradition that we think is mistaken. This might be hard to believe, but the Ms. Lesley's scenario associated with the 1 Timothy chapter 2 issue is based on a obvious series of false understandings.
1I am not saying any church or person who falls into one of these categories is automatically a heretic, unsaved, or a horrible person/church. These are merely the requirements for a church to be on this particular list because these are the requirements most of the people who use this list are looking for.
I really need your help with preliminary vetting here, readers. Please carefully read and follow the guidelines and instructions below so your recommendation won’t be deleted or rejected. You must have a personal connection (ex: you’re a member or recent former member, you know the pastor personally, etc.) to the church you’re recommending...
The following types of churches, church search engines, and church planting organizations will not be added to the list (due to doctrinal or other issues)1:
1. United Methodist Churches (Certainly a lot of this denomination has apostatized. But is it possible to find a church that has not? We think so.)
2. Calvary Chapel churches (continuationist) (A "continuationist" church is one that believes that God has not stopped speaking to Christians. We discuss this in great detail here and here.)
3. Christian and Missionary Alliance (CMA) churches (continuationist, egalitarian, social justice) Certainly a lot of this denomination has apostatized. But is it possible to find a church that has not? We think so.)
4. Continuationist churches (It surprises us that this secondary set of doctrines is Ms. Lesley's chosen hill to die on.)
5. Any church that believes/teaches entire sanctification/sinless perfection (This also surprises us. The doctrine has been discussed and debated by honest interlocutors for centuries. It is also a secondary doctrine, yet it rises to heresy for Ms. Lesley.
2. Calvary Chapel churches (continuationist) (A "continuationist" church is one that believes that God has not stopped speaking to Christians. We discuss this in great detail here and here.)
3. Christian and Missionary Alliance (CMA) churches (continuationist, egalitarian, social justice) Certainly a lot of this denomination has apostatized. But is it possible to find a church that has not? We think so.)
4. Continuationist churches (It surprises us that this secondary set of doctrines is Ms. Lesley's chosen hill to die on.)
5. Any church that believes/teaches entire sanctification/sinless perfection (This also surprises us. The doctrine has been discussed and debated by honest interlocutors for centuries. It is also a secondary doctrine, yet it rises to heresy for Ms. Lesley.
The Bible hints at "sinless perfection":
Ep. 4:13 ...until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fulness of Christ.
1Jn. 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin.
1Jn. 3:9 No-one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
At the very least, Scripture makes it clear that we should at least aspire to live every moment without sinning.
We think we know why this is on Ms. Lesley's list. This doctrine is associated with John Wesley, a preacher and revivalist who represents the entirety of disdain Ms. Lesley has for anyone who isn't a Calvinist/Reformist. Even though tens of thousands of people were saved under Wesley's ministry, his doctrine disqualifies him.)
6. Any church that believes/teaches a genuinely regenerated Christian can lose or forfeit his salvation (Again, a doctrine that has been discussed and debated by honest interlocutors for centuries. Obviously Ms. Lesley is on one side of the debate, but her rejection of faithful Christians and churches on the other side doesn't make sense, since this doctrine is irrelevant to living an obedient and fruitful Christian life. It a doctrine that simply doesn't make any difference.
And by the way, what's wrong with the Biblical expression, "born again?" Why the cumbersome term "regenerated?")
7. Churches that consider Calvinism/Reformed theology to be false teaching (This is a duh statement since Ms. Lesley is a Calvinist/Reformed. Though in fact it saddens us because as we mentioned, the teachings of Calvinism are largely irrelevant.
7. Churches that consider Calvinism/Reformed theology to be false teaching (This is a duh statement since Ms. Lesley is a Calvinist/Reformed. Though in fact it saddens us because as we mentioned, the teachings of Calvinism are largely irrelevant.
And also sadly, Ms. Lesley makes it a demarcation point for a church's acceptability, which elevates the teaching of a man above the Bible.)
8. KJV Only churches (Churches which consider the King James Version to be the only acceptable and/or inspired translation of the Bible. Churches which merely prefer using the KJV are fine.) (Another secondary doctrine. Ironically, a KJV only church would probably reject Ms. Lesley.)
9.. Any church that uses music from Bethel, Jesus Culture, Hillsong, Elevation, Maverick City, anyone connected with these groups (such as Phil Wickham), Catholics, non-Christians, or any other contemporary musician who isn’t doctrinally sound. (We understand Ms. Lesley's objection, though we tend to give a little more latitude to this issue. Our standard is, are they biblically sound songs, do they avoid excessive self, do they exalt the Lord, and are they more than mindless fluff.
8. KJV Only churches (Churches which consider the King James Version to be the only acceptable and/or inspired translation of the Bible. Churches which merely prefer using the KJV are fine.) (Another secondary doctrine. Ironically, a KJV only church would probably reject Ms. Lesley.)
9.. Any church that uses music from Bethel, Jesus Culture, Hillsong, Elevation, Maverick City, anyone connected with these groups (such as Phil Wickham), Catholics, non-Christians, or any other contemporary musician who isn’t doctrinally sound. (We understand Ms. Lesley's objection, though we tend to give a little more latitude to this issue. Our standard is, are they biblically sound songs, do they avoid excessive self, do they exalt the Lord, and are they more than mindless fluff.
Our position is a high standard, especially when it comes to Bethel/Jesus Culture, and to a lesser degree, Elevation church. But even these groups also produce some truly excellent worship music.
We don't accept the typical objection that is is wrong to financially support these churches because of paying royalties for their songs. If a person were to consistently apply this standard we would be able to conduct our lives at all. Every organization, business, group, or ministry engages in or contributes to ideas or causes we might find marginal or even unacceptable. Your grocer might be pro-abortion. Your car salesman might be gay, or work for a car dealership or manufacturer that supports the gay agenda.
So to arbitrarily single out one particular thing and deem it to be unsupportable is foolish.)
10. Any church that uses or recommends books and materials from false teachers. This includes churches recommending, affiliated with, or financially supporting The Gospel Coalition, CRU, or any other parachurch organization which platforms false teachers, and/or is egalitarian, woke, compromises on the Bible’s teaching on gender/sexuality, etc. (Our response is the same as item 9.)
11. Any church that violates Scripture’s teaching on the role of women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-3:7). This includes, but is not necessarily limited to: churches with a female bearing the title of “pastor” (of anything) or “elder,” churches which allow women to function in pastoral roles without the title of pastor / elder (for example: female ministers of music or worship leaders; discipleship “facilitators” or “directors” who essentially function as elders / associate pastors, and so on), churches which allow women to preach to, hold unbiblical authority over, or instruct men or co-ed groups in the Scriptures (for example: teaching / co-teaching co-ed adult Sunday School / Bible study classes or home / small groups). (Ms. Lesley holds a doctrinal position based entirely on a church tradition that we think is mistaken. This might be hard to believe, but the Ms. Lesley's scenario associated with the 1 Timothy chapter 2 issue is based on a obvious series of false understandings.
We discuss this in detail here. Ms. Lesley herself was confronted with the idea that Paul was not writing to Timothy about women pastors leading churches, he was writing about husbands and wives. We published that here.)
12. Any church that does not have a detailed statement of faith (“What we believe,” “Doctrinal statement,” etc.) or link to such. (Doctrine is the bottom line for Ms. Lesley.)
13. Any church that does not have the pastor’s name (and pastoral staff / elders, if any) listed on its website. (I don’t list churches which are currently without a pastor. You’re welcome to submit your church once you get a new pastor.) (Is this a common failure? In our experience, churches tend to lionize their pastors as if he's some sort of superman.)
14. Any church that does not have a website (a social media page alone is not enough). (For a church shopper, actually going to the church is a better idea.)
12. Any church that does not have a detailed statement of faith (“What we believe,” “Doctrinal statement,” etc.) or link to such. (Doctrine is the bottom line for Ms. Lesley.)
13. Any church that does not have the pastor’s name (and pastoral staff / elders, if any) listed on its website. (I don’t list churches which are currently without a pastor. You’re welcome to submit your church once you get a new pastor.) (Is this a common failure? In our experience, churches tend to lionize their pastors as if he's some sort of superman.)
14. Any church that does not have a website (a social media page alone is not enough). (For a church shopper, actually going to the church is a better idea.)
1I am not saying any church or person who falls into one of these categories is automatically a heretic, unsaved, or a horrible person/church. These are merely the requirements for a church to be on this particular list because these are the requirements most of the people who use this list are looking for.
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