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In the past we have criticized the author for his poorly reasoned writings. But for the most part today's article is a very well done explanation regarding his eschatology. He quotes Scripture, challenges conventional thinking, and respectfully lays out his case logically and from the Bible.
In the past we have criticized the author for his poorly reasoned writings. But for the most part today's article is a very well done explanation regarding his eschatology. He quotes Scripture, challenges conventional thinking, and respectfully lays out his case logically and from the Bible.
This presentation gladdens our heart. So rarely do we find Bible teachers who actually quote and reference the Bible. And no attacks on the opposition. Well done.
Unfortunately, the author doesn't really explain amillennialism is or even what the millennium is.
In addition, we do have some quibbles with the author's presentation, which we will note below.
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Our church just finished up a 7-week series on eschatology. Among our elders, all four of the end-times views are represented—historic premillennialism, dispensational premillennialism, amillennialism, and postmillennialism. My sermon was on amillennialism, which I posted to my blog last week. You can listen to other messages in this series by going to fbclindale.com.
The following are questions we received in response to the series. I am singling out only those questions directed at the amil or postmil view. These questions were submitted anonymously and we received quite a few, so perhaps I’ll do a Part II later on. Questions are in bold, followed by my response.
QUESTION:
“If the position of Postmillennial and Amillennial (and others) do not believe in a pretribulation rapture, how do they explain verses such as these:
“‘I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left’ (Luke 17:34-35).
“‘Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord’ (I Thessalonians 4:17).” (We discuss the rapture in more depth here, which largely agrees with the author's position.)
ANSWER:
The pretribulation rapture is a belief in dispensationalism that Jesus will return to rapture up his saints prior to a 7-year period of tribulation. During the 7 years, God will complete His discipline of the nation of Israel, the antichrist will be revealed, and God will judge the godless who have reached the fullness of their depravity. Most dispensationalists believe that the majority of the book of Revelation describes what will happen during the period of Great Tribulation, which is the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. The 7 years conclude with the Second Coming of Christ to set up His millennial kingdom on the earth.
Not every dispensationalist believes the rapture will be at the beginning of the 7 years. Some believe it will be 3 1/2 years into the tribulation. This is the mid-trib rapture view. Others believe it will be at the end called the post-trib rapture. But this is all supposing there’s even a 7-year period of tribulation, which is not explicitly stated in Scripture. Belief in the tribulation comes from a certain interpretation of Daniel 9:27, and then that interpretation is read into other texts.
Luke 17:34-35 and the parallel passage in Matthew 24:40-41 are popular rapture texts. In the classic song I Wish We’d All Been Ready, Christian singer Larry Norman attempted to capture the picture he believed Jesus was presenting in these verses:
That said, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is not about a pre-trib rapture either. Can you point to me where a tribulation is mentioned and how the rapture of the saints precedes it? The Apostle Paul simply said that on the Day of Christ’s return, “the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”
As I shared in my sermon, the simplest, straight-forward reading of 1 Thessalonians 4 and 5 is that the return of Christ, the rapture of His saints, and the judgment of God upon unbelievers are all the same event. (We agree.)
QUESTION:
“How can, per scripture, Satan be walking the Earth ‘seeking who he can devour,’ also be in Heaven being the ‘Great Accuser,’ and be currently bound in prison?”
ANSWER:
This question presents one of the most common objections to amillennialism. Revelation 20:2-3 says that Satan has been “bound for a thousand years… so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended.” But if Satan is currently bound, how can he be prowling “around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8)?
Revelation is full of symbols, and Satan being “bound” is itself symbolic. All that we are told in Revelation 20 is that Satan is bound so that he can no longer deceive the nations (a word often synonymous with Gentiles). (Well, no. Revelation 20:3 says He threw him into the Abyss. If satan is in the abyss, where is this place? He cannot be in the abyss and also roaming about the earth.
Our church just finished up a 7-week series on eschatology. Among our elders, all four of the end-times views are represented—historic premillennialism, dispensational premillennialism, amillennialism, and postmillennialism. My sermon was on amillennialism, which I posted to my blog last week. You can listen to other messages in this series by going to fbclindale.com.
The following are questions we received in response to the series. I am singling out only those questions directed at the amil or postmil view. These questions were submitted anonymously and we received quite a few, so perhaps I’ll do a Part II later on. Questions are in bold, followed by my response.
QUESTION:
“If the position of Postmillennial and Amillennial (and others) do not believe in a pretribulation rapture, how do they explain verses such as these:
“‘I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left’ (Luke 17:34-35).
“‘Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord’ (I Thessalonians 4:17).” (We discuss the rapture in more depth here, which largely agrees with the author's position.)
ANSWER:
The pretribulation rapture is a belief in dispensationalism that Jesus will return to rapture up his saints prior to a 7-year period of tribulation. During the 7 years, God will complete His discipline of the nation of Israel, the antichrist will be revealed, and God will judge the godless who have reached the fullness of their depravity. Most dispensationalists believe that the majority of the book of Revelation describes what will happen during the period of Great Tribulation, which is the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. The 7 years conclude with the Second Coming of Christ to set up His millennial kingdom on the earth.
Not every dispensationalist believes the rapture will be at the beginning of the 7 years. Some believe it will be 3 1/2 years into the tribulation. This is the mid-trib rapture view. Others believe it will be at the end called the post-trib rapture. But this is all supposing there’s even a 7-year period of tribulation, which is not explicitly stated in Scripture. Belief in the tribulation comes from a certain interpretation of Daniel 9:27, and then that interpretation is read into other texts.
Luke 17:34-35 and the parallel passage in Matthew 24:40-41 are popular rapture texts. In the classic song I Wish We’d All Been Ready, Christian singer Larry Norman attempted to capture the picture he believed Jesus was presenting in these verses:
A man and wife asleep in bed,But Jesus was not talking about the rapture at all. He was talking about the judgment of God. In Luke 17, beginning in verse 26, Jesus said:
She hears a noise and turns her head, he’s gone;
I wish we’d all been ready.
Two men walking up a hill;
One disappears and one’s left standing still;
I wish we’d all been ready.
There’s no time to change your mind;
The Son has come and you’ve been left behind.
“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”In these examples, who gets “taken”? Not the believer who is raptured, but the unbeliever who is judged. Honest dispensational teachers agree the context of this passage is about judgment, not rapture. Said John MacArthur, “This is clearly not a reference to the catching away of believers described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.”
That said, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is not about a pre-trib rapture either. Can you point to me where a tribulation is mentioned and how the rapture of the saints precedes it? The Apostle Paul simply said that on the Day of Christ’s return, “the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”
As I shared in my sermon, the simplest, straight-forward reading of 1 Thessalonians 4 and 5 is that the return of Christ, the rapture of His saints, and the judgment of God upon unbelievers are all the same event. (We agree.)
QUESTION:
“How can, per scripture, Satan be walking the Earth ‘seeking who he can devour,’ also be in Heaven being the ‘Great Accuser,’ and be currently bound in prison?”
ANSWER:
This question presents one of the most common objections to amillennialism. Revelation 20:2-3 says that Satan has been “bound for a thousand years… so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended.” But if Satan is currently bound, how can he be prowling “around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8)?
Revelation is full of symbols, and Satan being “bound” is itself symbolic. All that we are told in Revelation 20 is that Satan is bound so that he can no longer deceive the nations (a word often synonymous with Gentiles). (Well, no. Revelation 20:3 says He threw him into the Abyss. If satan is in the abyss, where is this place? He cannot be in the abyss and also roaming about the earth.
Lk. 8:30-31 Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” “Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him. 31 And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the abyss.
It seems to us that the abyss is a separate place from the earth.)
This does not mean Satan is powerless. It simply means that he cannot prevent the gospel from going out into all the world. As I said in my sermon, Satan is “bound” so that you and I can hear the gospel and be saved, just as Jesus said (Mark 3:27). (It's an interesting theory, that satan is simply disarmed by being bound. The author would need to further explain how he reached this conclusion, and how it fits into the end-times chronology.)
Consider that Colossians 2:15 says that Satan and his forces have been disarmed and defeated, yet Ephesians 6:16 says they’re armed with flaming darts. Both statements can be true. Against Christ, no weapon can stand. Against us, Satan has many tools at his disposal. Satan can be bound from deceiving the nations and also be a very present enemy until his ultimate destruction. (Hmm. The author didn't discuss the "accuser." We discuss him here.)
QUESTION:
“How can Satan be currently imprisoned if Paul and other apostles reference his direct involvement during the church age? (See Acts 5:3, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, etc.) And if Satan were imprisoned due to the victory on the cross, is that victory undone when Satan is released?”
ANSWER:
References to Satan attempting to sabotage the advancement of the church actually strengthens my argument, not weakens it. Has Satan been successful at preventing the church from advancing? No. Why? Because he’s been defeated and bound. Again, this doesn’t mean he’s not a present adversary. He just cannot prevent the gospel from going to the Gentiles (or nations).
Now, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 says, “Even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” However, Scripture also says it is God who has blinded the unbelieving (John 12:40). God uses Satan as a secondary cause to accomplish His purpose. Satan is not a free agent who can thwart God’s plan.
Revelation 20:3 says that after the millennium, Satan “must be released for a little while.” Hence the question, “If Satan were imprisoned due to the victory of the cross, is that victory undone when Satan is released?” Well, is Satan being disarmed in Colossians 2:15 undone by him having flaming darts in Ephesians 6:16? It is God’s will in God’s plan for Satan to be released at a specific time He has appointed for a specific purpose. Satan cannot undo the victory of the cross.
Not one person whom Christ has purchased by His blood will be lost. In John 6:37-39, Jesus said, “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given me, but I will raise it up on the last day.”
QUESTION:
“In Revelation 7:9-17, we clearly see the resurrected Church in heaven. This reference is given between the 6th and 7th seals. God’s wrath is poured out with the 7th seal and opening of the scroll. Here it seems like God is protecting His people from His wrath. Why would God allow His Bride, the Church, to experience His harshest wrath when we are promised that God’s wrath is for the ungodly (2 Peter 3:7) and not for the believer (1 Thessalonians 5:9)?”
ANSWER:
God’s harshest wrath is poured out on unbelievers in hell. The church will in no way undergo any part of that wrath, thanks be to God in Christ Jesus our Lord! (This is incorrect. The saints will suffer persecution, particularly during the end time [Re. 6:9-11]. Revelation 20:4 directly mentions those Christians who did not worship the beast or receive the mark as being killed for their faith.
They will be in the midst of the trouble. Christians will indeed experience the wrath of God in those days, but they will be protected [Revelation 9:4] and rescued [1 Thessalonians 1:10].)
In Revelation 6:12-17, upon the breaking of the sixth seal, wrath is poured out on all the wicked described in six classes of people: kings, great ones, generals, rich, powerful, everyone slave and free (v.15). The judgment there is not poured out on the saints, who receive a seal of a different kind (Revelation 7:3). (Let's quote:
Re. 7:3-4 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
First, the seal was for the 144,000, not the saints. Second, the seal was not for protection, but rather for identity [Revelation 14:1, 2 Timothy 2:19]. The angel was instructed to not inflict his damage until the 144,000 were identified by being sealed. God set them apart before the judgment was poured out.)
As for the identity of the people described in Revelation 7, see my answer below regarding the 144,000.
QUESTION:
“What is wrong with having a panmillennial view (it will all pan out in the end) as long as we know that Christ will return to judge the living and the dead, the dead in Christ will rise first, and we who are left will be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord, and we will reign with Him forever in His perfect and glorious kingdom?”
ANSWER:
There’s nothing wrong with being unsure where you stand on a particular view of the end-times (I’ve often joked that panmillennials are just amillennials in denial). Maybe you can’t explain the details of Christ’s return, but you know He will return. He will judge the living and the dead, and all who believe in Jesus will be with the Lord forever.
If you camp on being panmillennial, be careful not to have an attitude that A) this is unimportant, or B) you’re above it all. The reason we study the end of the age is because it’s in the Bible. Eschatology is about the return of Christ as He promised He would return, His exaltation, the judgment of all mankind, and eternity in heaven or hell. That’s a pretty big deal.
But we’re also talking about prophecy, things that have yet to happen. Because the signs and symbols shown to us in Scripture can be confusing, there are different opinions as to what they mean or the order in which these events will take place, even to the point that these opinions have divided churches—I’ve witnessed that first hand. You might be tempted to think, “I’m above all of that,” and settle on being “panmillennial” to avoid controversy. But that can be just as prideful as anyone else with their position.
Though I have my own opinions about the end times, I’m resolved not to divide over them. When Paul first addressed the Thessalonians about the certain return of Christ, he said, “Therefore, encourage one another with these words,” and, “Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing” (1 Thessalonians 4:18 and 5:11). Twice, he says to be an encouragement to one another. That’s what I want to be in my end-times teaching—not dividing, but a pleasure to the body of Christ.
QUESTION:
“If all the elders hold to the same grammatical historical hermeneutical method of interpretation, how is it possible to have such differing views on eschatology? Or how can you say that you hold to that view consistently and still hold an amil or postmil view?”
ANSWER:
How we interpret the Bible is called hermeneutics. The best method for interpretation is called the grammatical historical method. According to an article in Tabletalk Magazine, “This hermeneutical approach investigates the original cultural setting of the text and focuses on grammar and syntax in order to understand what the author of the text meant when he wrote to his original audience. Only this method can give us the original meaning of the biblical text.”
The grammatical historical method is not synonymous with literalism—meaning that you have to interpret all words according to their most basic sense or your hermeneutic is bad. Sometimes the grammatical historical approach leads us to have to interpret signs, symbols, and typology, which fills apocalyptic literature such as Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation. This is no easy task and leads to differing opinions, which is why we have differing views of the end times.
The late R.C Sproul’s ministries, including Ligonier and Tabletalk which I just cited, incorporate a grammatical historical method of interpretation, and they come to a mostly postmillennial view of eschatology. John MacArthur’s ministries, including Grace to You and Masters University, also employ a grammatical historical method of interpretation, and they come to a dispensational view of eschatology. Yet in Sproul’s lifetime, he and MacArthur were close friends.
Do not look down on others from your view of the end-times. Otherwise, you become as divided as the Corinthians, who were saying, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ” (1 Corinthians 1:12). Paul rebuked the Corinthians even for saying “I follow Christ” in a divisive manner. That’s what you do with your eschatology when you say, “I’m a Pre-Trib,” or “I’m a Classic Premil,” or “I’m Amil,” or “I’m a Post-Mil Theonomic Reconstructionist.”
Perhaps your eschatology is doctrinally sound. But as Paul responded to the Corinthians, “Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?” You were not baptized dispy, premil, amil, postmil, or panmil. You were baptized into Christ. “Therefore, encourage one another with these words” (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
QUESTION:
“Isn’t replacement theology a Catholic and Lutheran doctrine? Doesn’t Amill, Postmill and historic Premill all replace Israel with the church or spiritualize Israel?”
ANSWER:
Regarding Roman Catholicism, my understanding is that they believe in a dual-covenant theology, meaning that the Law remains for the Jews while the New Covenant is for Gentiles. Lutherans can be as mixed in their end-times views as any protestants.
As I said in my sermon, I do not believe in replacement theology, this idea that the church has replaced Israel as God’s covenant people. To any dispensationalist accusing me of replacement theology, I would kindly press back that you examine your own doctrine in light of your accusation.
Reformed theology consistent with any reformed protestant confession (London Baptist Confession, Westminster Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, etc.) has never fashioned any category of “replacement theology.” The Bible says that Christ “has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility” and has made two people, Jews and Gentiles, one people in Christ (Ephesians 2:11-22). “There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28).
Dispensational theology, on the other hand, maintains a distinction between Israel and the Church. God’s promises with Israel are on hold while He is fulfilling His promises toward another group of people, the church. According to a popular dispensational website, “Dispensationalists believe that, just as God is in this age focusing His attention on the church, He will again in the future focus His attention on Israel.”
Between reformed and dispensational theology, which sounds more like Israel is being replaced? That is my question for the dispensationalist accusing me of replacement theology. Now, I’m not calling dispensationalism “replacement theology.” The label is erroneous. But I believe the dispensationalist has more to answer for regarding the charge of “replacement” than I do.
QUESTION:
“How can you discount God’s covenant with Israel which the Bible says will be fulfilled in the thousand year reign of Christ? (Ezekiel 37:27).”
ANSWER:
Ezekiel 37:27 says, “My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.” How does that say God’s covenant with Israel will be fulfilled in the thousand year reign of Christ? In fact, those words in Ezekiel are quoted in Revelation 21:3 with regards to the church, which is there called the New Jerusalem. All who are in Christ, Jew or Gentile, will dwell with God.
QUESTION:
“How can you discount or spiritualize away the 144,000 Jewish witnesses that will be sent out by Christ during the 7-year tribulation? (Revelation 7:5)”
ANSWER:
What 7-year tribulation? Where is that in Revelation 7? (And by the way, where is there mention of them being "witnesses" or being "sent out?")
The 144,000 in Revelation 7:4-8 and the “great multitude” in verse 9 are the same group of people. Notice that in verse 4, John only hears the number of the sealed. He doesn’t actually see them. In verse 9, he sees who they are, “a great number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.” (This is incorrect. The 144,000 were clearly not the same as the great multitude, for the quoted verse itself refutes the author. The 144,000 are specifically numbered from Israel, but the great multitude is from every nation.
We discuss the 144,000 in detail here.)
The vision of the people in chapter 7 is in response to the question asked at the end of chapter 6: “The great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” The answer is those standing around the throne, the servants of God who have been “sealed.” (The author infers a connection, but there are three verses in the way, Revelation 7:1-3. Verse one starts with "after this..." That is, After John saw this, he saw a new scene, four angels holding back the wind.
The vision of the people in chapter 7 is in response to the question asked at the end of chapter 6: “The great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” The answer is those standing around the throne, the servants of God who have been “sealed.” (The author infers a connection, but there are three verses in the way, Revelation 7:1-3. Verse one starts with "after this..." That is, After John saw this, he saw a new scene, four angels holding back the wind.
Therefore, the author cannot connect chapter 6 to chapter 7 in this manner.)
For a more detailed exposition, I refer you to this sermon by Dr. Voddie Baucham from his series on the book of Revelation. Though I have taught through Revelation twice, I have not yet recorded or written an exposition. But God-willing, I will soon.
QUESTION:
“What do you do with the two witnesses in Revelation 11:3 that will be seen by the entire world, at the same time, as they lay dead?”
ANSWER:
The two witnesses in Revelation 11:3 are the church. (We have not heard this interpretation before. But why are there two? The author does not explain how there can be two bodies of Christ.)
For a more detailed exposition, I refer you to this sermon by Dr. Voddie Baucham from his series on the book of Revelation. Though I have taught through Revelation twice, I have not yet recorded or written an exposition. But God-willing, I will soon.
QUESTION:
“What do you do with the two witnesses in Revelation 11:3 that will be seen by the entire world, at the same time, as they lay dead?”
ANSWER:
The two witnesses in Revelation 11:3 are the church. (We have not heard this interpretation before. But why are there two? The author does not explain how there can be two bodies of Christ.)
In fact, this whole section in Revelation 11:1-13 is about the church. In verse 1, John is told to “measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there.” So not just the temple, but the people, too. This “measuring” is comparable to the “sealing” of the people of God in chapter 7. (Well, this is odd. 11:2 says to "exclude the outer court." So how could the angel be measuring the Church if only part of the temple was to be measured? The outer court was for the uncircumcised. They could not enter the inner court.
By the way, the temple was also measured in Ezekiel 40 - 42, after which the glory of the Lord came. The purpose of measuring was to shame Israel [Ez. 43:10] and call them back to holiness. The whole point for the rest of Ezekiel is to instruct Israel. God is holy, and His house is holy because he dwells there [Ez. 43:9].
But Revelation does not tell us why John was to measure the temple and count the worshipers. There is simply no evidence that this is about "sealing," the 144,000, or the people of God.)
The “two witnesses” are said to be “the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.” Lampstands stood for the church in the first three chapters of Revelation, (Actually, the lampstand signifies light of the Gospel brought to the darkness of the world, which is embodied in Christ [John 8:12] and secondarily to the those Jews who believed Jesus [Matthew 5:14], and by extension, the Church.)
and the church is presented as an olive tree in Romans 11. (No, here the olive tree is Israel, more specifically, the people of promise [Romans 9:8], while we gentile believers are wild shoots who have been grafted into the promise [Romans 11:17].)
This theme of two is prevalent throughout the section: two witnesses (v.3), two types (two olive trees and two lampstands), “if anyone would harm them” mentioned twice (v.5), what “they have the power” to do mentioned twice (v.6), their bodies will lie in two cities (v.8).
Two is the number of witness. Scripture says, Old Testament and New, that every charge must be established on the evidence of two witnesses (Deuteronomy 17:6, Matthew 18:16, John 8:17, 2 Corinthians 13:1, 1 Timothy 5:19). The church is God’s prophetic witness to the world, “a pillar and buttress of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15), calling out sin, warning of the judgment that is to come, and preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.
When the testimony of the two witnesses is finished, verse 7 says, the beast rises from the bottomless pit and makes war on them and defeats them—as in Daniel 7:21 where the adversary “made war with the saints and prevailed over them.” Verse 8 says that their “dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.” (So the Church is dead at this point [Re. 11:7] but then stands up alive [Revelation 11:11] and is taken into heaven [Revelation 11:12]? This doesn't make sense.
Two is the number of witness. Scripture says, Old Testament and New, that every charge must be established on the evidence of two witnesses (Deuteronomy 17:6, Matthew 18:16, John 8:17, 2 Corinthians 13:1, 1 Timothy 5:19). The church is God’s prophetic witness to the world, “a pillar and buttress of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15), calling out sin, warning of the judgment that is to come, and preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.
When the testimony of the two witnesses is finished, verse 7 says, the beast rises from the bottomless pit and makes war on them and defeats them—as in Daniel 7:21 where the adversary “made war with the saints and prevailed over them.” Verse 8 says that their “dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.” (So the Church is dead at this point [Re. 11:7] but then stands up alive [Revelation 11:11] and is taken into heaven [Revelation 11:12]? This doesn't make sense.
If the church is taken into heaven at this point, why are the saints still on the scene for the beast to make war against them [Revelation 13:7]? And how do the saints gain victory over the beast if the Church is gone [Revelation 15:2]? And how can God's people come out of Babylon the Great if they're in heaven [Revelation 18:4]?)
In Revelation, the “great city” is Babylon (No, the "great city" [Revelation 18:19], or "Babylon the Great" [Revelation 16:19, Revelation 18:10], is where the light of a lamp will never shine in you again... [Revelation 18:23]. This is Jerusalem or Israel, for "she" [Jeremiah 14:17, Lamentations 2:13] persecuted the saints and apostles and prophets [Revelation 18:20] and is adulterous [Revelation 18:3], i.e., unfaithful to God. This is a common description for Israel [Ez. 6:9, Matthew 12:39].
No other people could have persecuted the apostles and prophets, so it cannot be Babylon.)
which stands for all the ungodly in the world. Jesus was crucified by the ungodly.
Verses 9-13 say that the entire world will witness their defeat and resurrection. It is commonly believed, thanks to Hal The Late Great Planet Earth Lindsey, that this can only mean the whole world will watch them on TV (or in the present age the internet). Is that what John and his first century audience would have understood? Of course not. To John and his hearers, the whole world will witness the seeming defeat and rise of the “two witnesses” because this is the church, visible in and to every nation. The church will not be defeated, and all will see us reign with Christ.
Someone might say, “Gabe, how can you read that so symbolically?” Because verse 8 says this is symbolic (or spiritual in some translations). (No, Revelation 11:8 says the Great City is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, again, Israel. This is not the two witnesses.)
If this is read literally without symbolism, then the two witnesses are literally olive trees and lampstands (v.4), they literally breathe fire (v.5), a literal beast somehow literally rises from a literal bottomless pit (v.7), and Jesus was crucified in a city other than Jerusalem (v.8). (No, we are not required to accept a choice between the author's symbolism or a precisely literal meaning.)
When reading Revelation, literalism is more confusing than reading to understand the signs and symbols set forth from the very beginning of the letter. It is meant to be read this way, with help from hundreds of Old Testament references. The majority of those references are from Psalms, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel—books filled with symbolism. This is how John’s audience understood this book, and this is how we should endeavor to understand it as well.
Conclusion
When the Apostle Paul told the Thessalonians about the return of Christ, he did not give them a robust theological chart about the sequence of events. His message was simple and his purpose was to encourage, that they also would encourage one another. And so should we. These things should not be a cause for division, but that we would be united in hope. The King is coming soon!
Continue to study the Bible, the very word of God. Test all things according to the Scriptures. Be careful “not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:14-15).
When reading Revelation, literalism is more confusing than reading to understand the signs and symbols set forth from the very beginning of the letter. It is meant to be read this way, with help from hundreds of Old Testament references. The majority of those references are from Psalms, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel—books filled with symbolism. This is how John’s audience understood this book, and this is how we should endeavor to understand it as well.
Conclusion
When the Apostle Paul told the Thessalonians about the return of Christ, he did not give them a robust theological chart about the sequence of events. His message was simple and his purpose was to encourage, that they also would encourage one another. And so should we. These things should not be a cause for division, but that we would be united in hope. The King is coming soon!
Continue to study the Bible, the very word of God. Test all things according to the Scriptures. Be careful “not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:14-15).
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