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We have a hard time understanding these Calvinists sometimes. They love to speculate on the salvation of people. Somehow they know exactly the status of an entire class of Christians, a class they created and placed people in. Few people would say, "I'm an Arminian," or "I'm a Calvinist." But people like R.C. Sproul assign unnamed and unknown people to one of these two categories and from there determine their salvation. And they know there are only two categories.
Not that we would expect it in this short clip, but there is no Scripture cited. We mention this because the Doctrinal Police are terribly reluctant to quote Scripture, no matter the length of their polemic.
I certainly hope that Arminians are saved and believe so because I was one for five years after I was converted, before I became Reformed in my theology. (His theology saved him?)
I believe that I was in a state of grace at that time. (God overlooked his bad theology and let him stay saved? Was this grace a narrow window that could cease?
What about other Arminians? are they also in a state of grace? Sproul will go on to mention a "happy inconsistency" by which Arminians are saved.)
I think that Arminianism is an extremely defective and weak theology. It has serious consequences and ramifications for the church in general and for the Christian individual in particular.
I think that Arminianism is an extremely defective and weak theology. It has serious consequences and ramifications for the church in general and for the Christian individual in particular.
Are they saved? I always like to say yes, but by a happy inconsistency. If they really believe what they say they believe, then I don’t think they would be saved.
Arminians affirm justification by faith alone, the work of Christ, and all of those orthodox things. However, if you ask them why it is that they’re saved and their neighbor isn’t, they will say that God gave grace both to them and to their neighbor but they said yes to that grace and cooperated with it while their neighbor said no and rejected it. (Arminians say this? This is the basis for Sproul's determination? He makes up a scenario, pounces on the phraseology, and proclaims the Arminian saved by a "happy inconsistency." That would mean of, course, that if this Arminian was consistent he wouldn't be saved.)
I say to my Arminian friends: “So, you did the good thing and your neighbor did the bad thing. You have something to boast about, but they have only sin. You have done the right thing, but they’ve done the wrong thing. Your work, in the final analysis, is the decisive factor for your being saved, whereas the bad work of your neighbor is the decisive factor for why they’re not saved.”
When I say that to my Arminian friends, to their credit, they always say, “No, I don’t believe that I’m saved on the basis of my works and that my neighbor is damned by his bad works.” They don’t believe that, but I’m telling them, “That’s what you should say if you’re going to be consistent with your theology.” Fortunately, they’re not consistent with their theology. (Their flawed theology did not condemn them? We wish Sproul would decide if doctrine saves or not.)
This is a transcript of R.C. Sproul’s answer given during our 2015 Pilgrims in Progress Regional Conference, and has been lightly edited for readability. To ask Ligonier a biblical or theological question, just visit Ask.Ligonier.org or message us on Facebook or Twitter.
Would you call this "scorched-earth discernment", or something like it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_--7RYkGTY
ReplyDeleteWhat's your opinion on that sermon? I have no issue with them talking about sin, but I'm confused why their website says about their church, "You don't have to believe to belong. That means that whatever your age, your story or where you are in your walk with God, there's a place for you here", and that they also don't care how you dress at their church - yet they have very forceful opinions and say if you don't agree, you're not a Christian. Why say it doesn't matter where you are in your walk, and then say if you disagree [I don't mean on sinful issues], then you're not with us? Also, they say, "movies and music have an agenda" [spirit of Babylon], yet they listen to that music on IG stories.
ReplyDeleteWhat church is it? I couldn't find it.
ReplyDeleteEcho Church in Australia.
ReplyDelete