I posted this on FB:
“Not much experience is needed in order to know human weakness, and to understand that men—especially the young, ….. growing used to the employment of anti-conceptive practices, may finally lose respect for the woman and, no longer caring for her physical and psychological equilibrium, may come to the point of considering her as a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion.” - Pope Paul VI, 1968
B.R.: Awww that poor Pope doesn't know what he's talking about.
Me: Not sure if you're being sarcastic. Rape statistics are way up since 1968, and partner abuse is as well. Not to mention pornography, out of wedlock births, abortion (particularly among black women)...
Me: "The mass-produced condom and the Pill have freed men from feeling obligation for women as much as they have freed women to regularly and blithely pursue what was historically risky sex with caddish alpha males on the make." http://heartiste.wordpress.com/
B.R.: I'm not being sarcastic. Unless there's a missing section on the benefits of sexual satisfaction, this quote by the Pope displays a sad misunderstanding of both genders' physical desires and needs. Show me just cause for blaming sexual dysfunction on contraception alone - as well as some hard statistics on these supposed rises since 1968 - and I'll take this position seriously. Until then, it's a closed-minded and disrespectful perspective on one of God's greatest gifts to mankind.
Me: Your moral indignation in support for the objectifying of women is unseemly. Generic "sexual satisfaction" is not automatically beneficial.
Indeed, your next statement includes the phrase "sexual dysfunction" admits there is good sexual interaction and bad sexual interaction. Therefore, we only differ on the details.
B.R.: My moral indignation is not on behalf of female objectification, it's on behalf of positive sexuality, population control, sexual education, homosexual health, and women's right to choose when to become pregnant. I completely agree that there is healthy and unhealthy sexual interaction, and obviously there are welcome and unwelcome sexual advances. But I don't think unhealthy sexual interaction nor unwelcome sexual advances can be blamed on the advance of contraception - if you believe contraception is responsible for a supposed rise in both of these negative elements, I'd love to see the facts and reasoning behind that belief.
Me: Every once in a while I express my disappointment in you. This is one of those times. YOur first sentence reads like a bumper sticker on the back of a Volvo.
You continue to use language like "healthy and unhealthy" and "welcome and unwelcome," which are value judgments. I don't see why my value judgments require documentation while yours do not.
Me: Have you looked at the heartiste link? This blog is dedicated to techniques for the pick-up artist. The author himself provided the Pope's quote, and as a player himself he says he has benefited greatly from the contraceptive culture in his quest for casual sex.
B.R.: What's wrong with Volvos? I'm gonna cut this short before we continue misunderstanding one another: this is another conversation in which our disagreement is very basic, but our base message and contextual definitions are in completely different realms. You want to talk about how contraceptives have increased opportunities for sexual predators, and I'm not going to argue with that. I want to talk about how contraceptives have provided benefits and cultural improvements to both genders, and to give that argument justice, I should provide documentation, which I don't have the interest in doing right now, given the aforementioned chasm in our viewpoints. However, my initial point is that the Pope doesn't understand the sex lives of other people, and I'll hold to that.
Me: Actually, our differences are fairly small. I have not denied the benefits of contraceptives, nor am I anti-contraceptive. I have simply asserted that there are a certain amount of bad consequences as a result of contraception. You seem to think that there are no bad consequences, and that these bad things cannot be blamed on contraception.
Nothing wrong with Volvos. That was a suspect attempt at humor, my friend.
B.R.: Ah well, it's hard to swing from "you disappoint me" to humor, but I appreciate the attempt. And c'mon there's not NOTHING wrong with Volvos - they're soooooo boooooring.
I haven't said there are no negative consequences to contraception. However, it's hardly fair to blame sexual predation and dysfunction (e.g. "no longer caring for her physical and psychological equilibrium") on it. When it comes to man's disrespectful treatment of women, I believe parenting and education play a far bigger role than contraception. When it comes to harassment and rape, I believe that parenting, education, alcohol, narcotics, the justice system, and the mental health system play equal or bigger roles than contraception.
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