Baptism - is it required for salvation?

I’ve been thinking about the doctrine of baptism. we tend to think that we understand what the Bible teaches because we've thought it out, studied, and researched. But that isn't necessarily so. So much of what I thought I believed was simply because someone told me so. A sermon is too often substituted for personal study.

The doctrine of baptism is one such thing. What does the Bible teach about baptism? Perhaps not what we think. Baptism has a long tradition, including among the Jews, who ritually washed themselves. The practice of water baptism continued into the church as a ordinance or sacrament of the faith. Importantly, the idea of being washed in both blood and water has both natural and spiritual implications.

So, I'm going to explore some of the ideas surrounding baptism. This is by no means a thorough exposition, nor is it necessarily scholarly. I am not a Bible scholar.

The Old Testament

We well know that the offering of blood for the remission of sins is a crucial part of Jewish understanding. Large portions of the O.T. are instructions and references to blood sacrifice. All of this, of course, was pointing to the ultimate sacrifice for sin, given once for all in the person of Jesus Christ. But not as clear to me was how baptism connects to this.

The earliest biblical mention I could find regarding something akin to baptism is Num. 19:20-21:

"But if a person who is unclean does not purify himself, he must be cut off from the community, because he has defiled the sanctuary of the LORD. The water of cleansing has not been sprinkled on him, and he is unclean. This is a lasting ordinance for them. The man who sprinkles the water of cleansing must also wash his clothes, and anyone who touches the water of cleansing will be unclean till evening."

Like the blood sacrifices, this "water of cleansing" was a carefully described ritual act. Someone who was not clean could not enter the Temple to worship, and was actually an outcast, not part of the people. Of course, such a person could be restored to the community by becoming ceremonially clean, but until then they were unfit for worship and unfit to be part of the people.

David's famous statement in Ps. 51:7, "Cleanse me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow" ties in here as well. Hyssop was used to place blood on the doorframe so as to be passed over. Moses sprinkled the people with blood at the giving of the commandments. Hyssop also was used to sprinkle water for ceremonial cleanness. Nu. 19:18: "Then a man who is ceremonially clean is to take some hyssop, dip it in the water and sprinkle the tent and all the furnishings and the people who were there."

And as an interesting aside, a hyssop branch was what carried the sponge with sour wine to Jesus' lips as He hung on the cross.

This "sprinkling,"is a physical representation of the spiritual cleansing God intends. The Messiah, the Lamb of God, is offered for the sins of the world, and His blood washes those who are unclean because of sin. That sin prevented us from coming in worship, and also separated us from the Body of Christ. What is particular to the Jews in a physical manifestation is a picture of what God intends for all men, both Jew and Gentile. Is. 52:15:

"... so will he sprinkle many nations, so will many nations marvel at him and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand."

I like that this shown as a revelation, that those with spiritual eyes and ears will discern the glory of God as He offers His son as one sacrifice for all.

Ez. 36:25-27 continues this theme:

"I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

This is a greater act than ritual cleansing, it's a change in the inner man, where we receive a tender heart and a new spirit. This washing is supernatural, transformative, and it is so thorough and efficacious that God's own Spirit can take up residence in us. Now we can truly keep the law, be worshipers in Spirit and truth, and take our place in the Body as one of the living stones. That law, the law of Christ, is grace imparted to us, not by virtue of how well we clean ourselves, but by how completely we have been washed by the blood of Jesus and thence filled by His Holy Spirit.

How America Punishes People for Being Poor - by Rebecca Vallas

Reproduced here for fair use and discussion purposes. My comments in bold.
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This post first appeared at TalkPoverty.org.

Before we even get started, we need to discuss the headline. America does NOT punish people for anything, let alone for being poor. This is absurd on its face, as if America is an entity with a singular consciousnesses, setting out to purposely trip up poor people. Instead, America is a country, with no emotions, thoughts, or sentience. It is a geographic region organized by political and cultural features. It does not think, feel, hate, or smile.

In fact, America is a unique political experiment in self-governance, created on the principles of liberty and self-determination in the context of Christian morality. If ever there was a place where people of every status and walk of life could work hard and make something of themselves, America is it. 

It is totally offensive for the author to assert that America punishes the poor.

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This past weekend, I was part of a panel discussion on MSNBC’s Melissa Harris Perry with New York Times reporter Michael Corkery, whose reporting on the rise in subprime auto loans is as horrifying as it is important.

In what seems a reprisal of the predatory practices that led up to the subprime mortgage crisis, low-income individuals are being sold auto loans at twice the actual value of the car, with interest rates as high as 29 percent. They can end up with monthly payments of $500 — more than most of the borrowers spend on food in a month, and certainly more than most can realistically afford. Many dealers appear in essence to be setting up low-income borrowers to fail. (We have never understood this assertion that banks want people to fail. Why? What possible good is it for the bank to not collect peoples' installments and thus ending up repossessing the car? The bank loses money!

Also, note how innocent, and apparently stupid, people are being taken advantage of by eeevil salespeople and banks. It's as if poor people are being rounded up door-to-door by dealerships and being forced to buy cars. 

Rather than people being responsible for their own choices, even their bad ones, in typical Leftist fashion someone else is always to blame. And because people need to be protected from themselves, in steps government to rescue them from their own consequences.) 

Critiquing a critique - Sandy Simpson on the song Hosanna, by Brooke Fraser

Critique found here. Reproduced here for fair use and discussion purposes. My comments in bold.

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The above linked website on the whole does a good job of critiquing the doctrinal content of worship song. I've critiqued songs a couple of times myself. 

However, critiques should not be colored by doctrinal misunderstandings. I picked her (I'm assuming "Sandy" is a woman's name) critique of Hosanna because I like the song, both content and music, and because of the doctrinal issues that impair her critique. 

Ms. Simpson first quotes the lyrics, then provides her critique below:

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I see the king of glory
Coming down the clouds with fire
The whole earth shakes, the whole earth shakes
I see his love and mercy
Washing over all our sin
The people sing, the people sing

Hosanna, hosanna
Hosanna in the highest

I see a generation
Rising up to take the place
With selfless faith, with selfless faith
I see a new revival
Staring as we pray and seek
We're on our knees, we're on our knees

Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
Show me how to love like you have loved me
Break my heart for what is yours
Everything I am for your kingdom's cause
As I walk from earth into eternity

The Bible does not speak of an end times revival (with the exception of when the remnant of Israel finally acknowledges Jesus Christ as Messiah in the Tribulation) but rather a generation the has slipped into apostasy.    This is incorrect. The author mistakes the day of the Lord [an event], with some portion the Church age [a time period].

Part of the mistake comes from her not including the first two verses of the passage, which reads, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come." [2 Thess. 2:1-2] Here we see that Paul is telling the church at Thessalonica that the Lord has not yet come to gather His people to Himself, and that day will not come until after certain events have transpired. Now we can understand the context for the rest of the passage, as quoted by the author: 

Appetites - Ann Barnhart - Concupiscible vs.Irascible

Found here. Reproduced here for fair use and discussion purposes.
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2. Let’s talk about Concupiscible and Irascible Appetites, because understanding what they are and how they get perverted explains a lot.

The Concupiscible Appetite is what makes our souls long after things that are pleasant to the senses (like bacon) and avoid those things that are unpleasant to the senses (like Justin Bieber). So, we LOVE bacon, and when we achieve bacon we experience DELIGHT. When we do not achieve bacon, we experience DESIRE. Contrariwise, we HATE Justin Bieber*, and when being exposed to Justin Bieber is possible but not accomplished, we experience AVERSION, and when we actually do experience the evil of Bieber we feel sadness and sorrow. So that’s how the Concupiscible Appetites work.

(* We don’t actually HATE Justin Bieber, and in fact we must pray for that repellant little jerk-wit, because man, it’s not looking good for him if he wraps his Ferrari around a light pole this afternoon. But you have to admit, the Bacon-Bieber thing was a pretty awesome pedagogical device, huh?)

Now the Irascible Appetites. This is what makes our souls long after DIFFICULT goods – in other words, things that require us to overcome something unpleasant in order to achieve something virtuous or good. A very base example that springs to mind is the muscle soreness that goes along with all forms of exercise. Because we are rightly attracted to the idea of being physically sound and fit we exercise in spite of and push through the unpleasantness of the fatigue and soreness in order to achieve the good of physical fitness and strength. The highest example is carrying our crosses through life in this Vale of Tears in order to achieve the very attractive goal of heaven. If our goal is obtainable, then we have HOPE. If the difficult good is something unobtainable, then we experience despair. Contrariwise, when we encounter evils that are surmountable, even though they are repulsive we must have COURAGE to meet those evils and overcome them in order to achieve the good beyond, such as sacrificing material possessions, money or public esteem in order to do “the right thing” rather than capitulate to evil. Yes, the idea of losing all one’s worldly goods, or even one’s life, is certainly repulsive, but courage overcomes the repulsion. This is why Courage is the Fruit of the Third Sorrowful Mystery of the Rosary (the Crowning with Thorns). If the difficult evil is insurmountable, then we experience FEAR.

Pope Francis is a Modernist and a Materialist. He views the world and human beings as material, economic units. He does not have a proper balance between the Concupiscible and Irascible Appetites. He is focused almost entirely on the CONCUPISCIBLE appetites. This is why he talks almost exclusively about people in terms of their MATERIAL WEALTH. The Poor, The Poor, The Poor. Not the Poor IN SPIRIT, because that encompasses BOTH the concupiscible and irascible appetites. No, with him, being a Peronist-Fascist, which is a subset of Marxism, the world and human beings are framed completely by the concupiscible SENSE appetites. So, give “the poor” more free stuff. The biggest problems in the world today are “youth unemployment” and “the loneliness of old people” – NOT sin or the consequences of sin, namely the loss of heaven and eternal damnation to hell, which are supernatural realities.

What this skewed emphasis on the Concupiscible Appetites leads to, as we see with Francis, is Materialism, which then feeds selfishness, pride and the gaping maw of the ego. Me, me, me. I want to get to go up to Communion like everyone else, because I FEEL excluded. I refuse to believe that anything that makes a person “FEEL GOOD”, including adultery, contraception, fornication and sodomy, could possibly be a sin, because me, me, me, me. But enough about me. Let’s talk about ME. If I give you free stuff, or tell other people that they should give you free stuff, and if I tell you that your sins aren’t sins and OF COURSE you can come up and have Communion because that will make you FEEL good, and then you will like ME! Because who cares about virtue and carrying crosses. Blah, blah, blah. No one wants to hear about sin and judgment and hell and redemptive suffering and old-fashioned Catholic nonsense like that. The only way for man to achieve happiness and thus perfection, is through MATERIAL WEALTH.

This kowtowing to the Sense Appetites to the specific exclusion of the Virtuous Appetites generates the adoration of the teeming throngs (aka “economic units”) and thus feeds the pride and ego, which is the goal of the morally crippled man.

ONE WAY ---- JESUS BY STEVE FINNELL

Originally found here. Suspected source material found here.
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(There is a ferocity to those who view their job as "defenders of the true doctrine." They are always vigilant, prowling around looking for the slightest deviation from the faith as they see it, then pouncing with full force upon the heretical.

I'll be the first to admit that there is a lot of false teaching out there, and the forces of apostasy and compromise are clearly gathering against the Church. But our pure doctrine will not save us. Nor will these doctrinal policemen be necessarily commended by the Father. Ours is a life-giving faith, where by the power of the Holy Spirit we live lives of prayer, worship, and The Word.

In the below article we see that the author picks out some targets, and based on third-hand information issues condemnation against certain pastors. I doubt the author has actually done any substantial investigation himself. I doubt that he contacted the ministries in question for clarification. And I doubt that the author is interested in helping these pastors in any way. 

I need to note that I am not posting this to defend these men. But notice the theme adopted by the author, that these men are in error for not knowing the hearts and minds of men. 

Read on:
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The Bible teaches that Jesus is the only way to heaven, the only way to have sins forgiven, the only way to be reconciled to God. Why do so many so-called Christian preachers deny this as the truth?

T.D. Jakes

Question to T. D. Jakes: "Do you feel only Christians could hope to enter Heaven?"

Answer: "When it comes to Heaven, I try to leave that up to God. I certainly believe that Christianity is right, but when it comes to the final test--who goes and who doesn't go -- Jesus said, Other sheep have I who are not of this fold. Them also must I bring. I'll let Him identify who those sheep are and I stay out of the conversation.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him,"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Jesus says He is the only way to Heaven. Preacher Jakes say he has no idea if that is correct. (Pastor Jakes DID NOT say that. He made a very honest observation that it is God's job. Indeed, no one gets to decide who is Christian and who is not. We are not qualified! We might be very surprised at who we find in heaven. Mt. 7:21: “Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." 

And what are we to believe about Abraham? He was not a "Christian." but Paul tells us that same way that we enter heaven, "by faith," is what commended Abraham to God: "This is why 'it was credited to him as righteousness.' The words 'it was credited to him' were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness — for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead." Rom. 4:22-24 

It is clear that the nature and scope of salvation is not so cut-and-dried. Does one need to believe that Jesus died for our sins, and he is the only way to salvation? Yes. Does that mean that thinking you are Christian means you are saved? No. 

One last thing. Jakes said this in 2007. Is there any possibility that Jakes has said something since that might clarify this remark, or show he has evolved on the issue, or perhaps, has changed is viewpoint? Well, we will never know this if the issue is left to the author to discover.)

He cannot say for sure if Jesus is the only way to Heaven. How can a preacher of the gospel not know what Jesus said concerning who is going to Heaven?

Who are the other sheep? (John 10:1-16) The sheep Jesus was talking about were the Jews who were believing and confessing that He was the Son of God. The other sheep are all Gentiles who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

The sheep of Jesus (Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.) The sheep of Jesus are all who accept Him as the Son of God, Lord and Savior. All converted Jews and Gentiles are the sheep of Jesus.

Joel Osteen

(I offer no defense of Osteen's squishy lack of certainty.) Larry King question: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

Joel Osteen: You know I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know...

Larry King: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong aren't they?

Joel Osteen: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know about their religions. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to a relationship with Jesus.

John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jesus said those who do not believe have already been judged. Joel Osteen says He doesn't know if non-believers will go to heaven or not. Joel says he does not know if they wrong in their unbelief.

Billy Graham

Robert Schuller: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

Billy Graham: well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ...I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ, because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven."

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides in him"

The Apostle John said that the that wrath of God abides in those who do not believe in Jesus and who do not obey Him. Billy Graham disagrees. (That remains to be seen. Inelegantly expressed, perhaps, but it is clear that Graham believes that there are people who might not seem like Christians, yet they believe and are saved.) Who are you going to trust?

You will notice that preachers who deny that Jesus is the only way to heaven say. "I do not know if Jesus is the only way, but I think I know more of the truth than God."

John 8:24 'Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.''

Jesus said men will die in theirs if they do not confess Him. Some preachers say, I don't think so.

Mark 16:16 He who has believed and been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

A question remains, did those who proclaimed that Jesus is not the only way to heaven stop believing Jesus was the only way, first or did they declare that water baptism was not essential to be saved, first?

The gospel should be based on what the Bible teaches, what Jesus said, what the apostles taught. The gospel of what MEN think is no gospel at all!

My near death experience

Written  9/10/02

Having experienced a "near death" event a few weeks ago, I have learned a few things about myself and my faith. It really didn't hit me for some time that I had nearly died. I was in a very serious situation. Maybe it was the peace that surpasses understanding, or maybe I was not thinking too clearly as it was happening, but I just wasn't afraid.

I still don't know what caused my allergic reaction, but I do know that I was going downhill fast until my son prayed for me. I refuse to second guess myself as to what it was I ate or inhaled or what insect bit me. I have to remind myself to not live in fear.

Life is so fleeting, so temporary. It can be snatched away in a split second. However, I have come to realize that something cannot be taken from me if it doesn't belong to me. Scripture says that I died, and my life is now hidden in Christ. I should fix my heart and my mind on heavenly things. This is a reality check from God.

Paul taunts death in 1 Corinthians when he quotes the psalmist: "Death, where is your sting?" In other places he makes it clear that death is meaningless to him (To live is Christ, to die is gain). The grave has no power over God's children! I suspect that what motivates a lot of the self-improvement movement, with its diets, exercise programs, plastic surgeries, and obsession with self is the fear of death.

Therefore, we should not fear death, but beyond that, we should fully embrace life "in Christ." The life I live is really Christ living in me. As I pursue understanding of being "in Christ," or even, asking "in His name," I realize more and more that I need to obtain His heart and see through His eyes. 

Nothing changes dead flesh, but He transforms my spirit. That was the part of me that was dead but He made alive. Someday, this physical body will catch up to the spiritual reality, but for now I would rather nurture my spirit life.

The flesh is what I am commanded to put to death. Improving it is an impossibility. I am the same old guy if I lose 20 pounds or not. But Jesus transforms the real me into something that is pleasing to God. God accepts me into His family, and now I have abundant life, an inheritance, and a hope. 

So, now I have gained a fresh perspective. My life keeps getting better as I come into His presence and allow His glory and beauty to permeate me. I begin to stop the charade of the old man who is dead and start living the reality of Christ. The more I give up, the more I gain.

Here is a song I wrote the day after my "near death" experience:

1) HERE IN THE QUIET PLACE, AS I BEHOLD YOUR FACE;

MY LIFE KEEPS GETTING BETTER.

I FALL UPON MY KNEES, I WORSHIP YOU MY KING;

AND MY LIFE KEEPS GETTING BETTER.

(CHORUS) GOD OF GLORY, AWESOME, HOLY; HIGH ABOVE ALL ELSE!

HOLY, HOLY, YOU ARE HOLY; THERE IS NONE LIKE YOU!

2) I OFFER YOU MY LIFE; AS A LIVING SACRIFICE

AND MY LIFE KEEPS GETTING BETTER.

TAKE MY BODY, TAKE MY WILL, AND I WILL PRAISE YOU STILL;

AND MY LIFE KEEPS GETTING BETTER WITH YOU.

(REPEAT CHORUS AND GO TO BRIDGE)

(BRIDGE) STANDING IN YOUR PRESENCE, BOWING AT YOUR FEET;

ALL I WANT IS MORE OF YOU!

LORD, I LONG TO SEE YOU, WANT TO KNOW YOU MORE;

THE SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE SAY, "COME!"

3) I’M GOING TO RUN THE RACE, MOVING ON IN FAITH

AND MY LIFE KEEPS GETTING BETTER.

YOU ARE FAITHFUL THROUGH THE YEARS, YOU WIPE AWAY MY TEARS;

AND MY LIFE KEEPS GETTING BETTER WITH YOU.

TONGUES AND SALVATION? - BY STEVE FINNELL

Found here. Our comments in bold.

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It is unfortunate that we are forced to rebut this man again. He seems to mean well. As such, we have no intention of piling on a brother in Christ for his errant views, but when all the world can see your post, you better make sure that you aren't embarrassing yourself.
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There is a view that salvation has to be validated by the evidence of speaking in tongues. (We are not aware of a significant number of people who equate salvation with speaking in tongues. However, many charismatics do suggest that that baptism of the Holy Spirit is evidenced by speaking in tongues. We hold neither of these views. Our position is that salvation, the filling of the Holy Spirit, and any variety of gifts imparted, can and and do occur at separate times.) 

Top 10 Solutions to Cut Poverty and Grow the Middle Class - by Rebecca Vallas and Melissa Boteach

Reproduced here for fair use and discussion purposes. My comments in bold.
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Here we have another economically clueless article purporting to solve poverty. Read on:
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This post first appeared at TalkPoverty.

Last month, the US Census Bureau released its annual figures on income, poverty and health insurance. It revealed that four years into the economic recovery, economic insecurity remains widespread, and low — and middle — income workers have seen no significant wage growth over the past decade. (This is why I used the word "clueless." If we are really in a recovery, how is it that the poor and middle class haven't recovered? Definitionally, in order to have a recovery, people need to be recovering, don't they?)

With the poverty rate at an unacceptable 14.5 percent and economic inequality stuck at historically high levels, one might assume that chronic economic insecurity and an off-kilter economy are the “new normal” — that nothing can be done to fix it. (More evidence there is no recovery.)

But there is nothing “normal” or inevitable about more than 45 million Americans living in poverty. It is the direct result of policy choices. With different policy choices, we will see a more equitable economy — it’s as simple as that. (So here is the identified problem, wrong policy choices. In other words, improving the economy, and therefore, the plight of the poor, is centered on what policies government implements. Government action is the only consideration.)

Here are 10 steps Congress can take to cut poverty, boost economic security and expand the middle class. (Ok, so government action is required. You might asssume that these 10 government actions required will be new ideas, things that have not yet been tried. You would be wrong.)

1) Create jobs.

The best pathway out of poverty is a well-paying job. To get back to prerecession employment levels, we (The ubiquitous "we,: which is never "you and I." "We" is government.) 

must create 5.6 million new jobs. To kick-start job growth now, the federal government (See? "We" is government.) 

should invest (Which means, "spend taxpayer money on.") 

in our infrastructure by rebuilding our bridges, railways, roads, ports, schools and libraries, neighborhood parks and abandoned housing; expanding broadband; develop renewable energy sources; and make other commonsense investments that create jobs and boost our national economy. (This is exactly what the stimuli were supposed to fund, remember? Shovel-ready jobs? crumbling infrastructure? This recommendation is exactly what all those billions of dollars were spent on, and yet the number one recommendation is to simply do it again. Maybe this brand new approach will work this time, hmmm?) 

Has Your Bible Become A Quran? - by Fr. Stephen Freeman

Interesting and informative. Originally found here. 

The most notable thing I take issue with is the author's statement "submission is not a word that passes the lips of Christ," which suggests that we need only be concerned with what Jesus Himself said. There is no precedent for such an idea, however, for then we would be perfectly justified in ignoring Paul's epistles or anything else that did not record Jesus's words. That of course is unacceptable. 

I concede that the author is correct about us becoming united with Christ and becoming children of God, but he wrongly diminishes submission. Indeed, "Christianity is not submission," but submission is critical to Christianity. It's a theme that is found over and over.

Ep. 5:24 "Now as the church submits to Christ..." 

He. 5:7: "During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission." 

He. 12:9: "Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!" 

Ja. 4: "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

Read on:
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Those who engage in debates on a regular basis know that the argument itself can easily shape the points involved. This is another way of saying that some debates should be avoided entirely since merely getting involved in them can be the road to ruin. There are a number of Christian scholars (particularly among the Orthodox) who think that the classical debates between Christians and Muslims during the Middle Ages had just such disastrous results for Christian thinking.

Now when engaging in religious debates it is all too easy to agree to things that might make for later problems. It is possible, for example, to agree to a comparison of the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament and the Book of the Quran. After all, Muslims have a holy book – Christians have a holy book. Why should we not debate whose holy book is better?

It is even possible to agree with the Muslim contention that Christians (and Jews) are “People of the Book.” Of course Muslims meant that Christians and Jews were people of aninferior book, but were somehow better than pagans. Again, it is possible, nevertheless, to let the matter ride and agree that Christians are “People of the Book.”

And it is also possible to give wide latitude to the Muslim claim that the most essential matter with regard to God is “Islam,” that is “submission.” After all, if God is the Lord of all creation, then how is submitting to Him, recognizing and accepting that He is God, not the most important thing?

But each of these proposals had disastrous results in the history of Christianity and may very well be the source of a number of modern distortions within the Christian faith.

Thus, at the outset I will state:
The Bible is not the Christian Holy Book.
Christians (and Jews) are not People of the Book.
Submission to God is not a proper way to describe the Christian faith

INHERIT ORIGINAL SIN? - BY STEVE FINNELL

Originally found here. Reproduced here for fair use and discussion purposes. My comments in bold.
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(I covered the author's previous missive about this very same subject here. We are revisiting this because the author makes some new assertions worthy of examination.
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If the false doctrine of original sin is true how would Christian parents pass it on to their children? (I really don't think the author actually understands the doctrine of fallen creation, as I prefer to call it. As I noted before, all of creation was corrupted by the sin of Adam [Rom. 8:20-22], and Jesus' sacrifice reversed the curse of the law: "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us..." Ga. 3:13

So his question becomes nonsensical, because everyone is born as a fallen man and is in need of redemption from the curse.) 


Ephesians 5:25-27...just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish. (NKJV)

How would it be possible for the church to be holy without blemish and be able to pass the inherited guilt of Adam's sin to children of Christian parents? (Persisting in his nonsensical questioning, the author extends his scope to include the entire Body of Christ. Making the "problem" bigger doesn't change the answer.)

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said , "Behold The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! (NKJV)

Does Jesus take away all sin except original sin? He did not die for original sin. Original sin inherited by men is not found in the Bible. (Going from nonsensical to the ridiculous, the author bifurcates sin into categories as if Christ died for one kind of sin but not another. However, there is no need to make these artificial distinctions. In Rom. 3:19-28, Paul gives us the nature of sin, the universality of sin, how we came to know that we are sinners, and the remedy for sin: 

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no-one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. 

"He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished — he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law."

What the author doesn't seem to understand is that sin is a condition, a state of being. It is not only what we do or think or believe. It is our nature as part of fallen creation.)