When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation? - gotquestions

Found here. Our comments in bold.

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It takes a mere four paragraphs for gotquestions to examine the issue and pronounce its own interpretation as the most biblical. Yet gotquestions manages to quote only a single Scripture. How is this possible?

Now, we recognize that a brief overview like this cannot be an in-depth doctrinal treatise. But the question being answered is regarding the timing of the rapture, which gotquestions doesn't answer. It acknowledges this to be a major controversial issue but just moves right on into defending its preferred position.

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When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?

ANSWER

The timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation is one of the most controversial issues in the church today. The three primary views are pre-tribulational (the rapture occurs before the tribulation), mid-tribulational (the rapture occurs at or near the mid-point of the tribulation), and post-tribulational (the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation). A fourth view, commonly known as pre-wrath, is a slight modification of the mid-tribulational position.

First, it is important to recognize the purpose of the tribulation. According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth “seven” (seven years) that is still yet to come. (Let's quote the verse: 

Da. 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven’. In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Gotquestions simply asserts without evidence that this seven year period is yet to come. It's statements like this that first caused us doubt pre-trib ideas. How can there be a period of time that must be broken up into sections in order to fit the doctrine? So we are forced by this to regard the weeks as figurative so that they can equal 490 years, then we have to agree they are not consecutive weeks.

We think this convolution is too much a stretch.

Da. 9:27 says that "he" will confirm a covenant. Who is "he?" Verse 26:

...the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

So this ruler will lay waste to Jerusalem and the temple. Jerusalem has been destroyed twice in its history, first by Nebuchadnezzar [2Kg. 25:8-11] in 589 BC and second by Titus under Nero in 70 AD. 

This mentioned ruler will put up an abomination on a wing of the temple.  So what if the angel Gabriel was telling Daniel about the impending doom of Nebuchadnezzar, and not the end of the world? What if he was really telling Daniel the truth, that Jerusalem needed to get its act in order [Da. 9:24] or get destroyed?

Let's back up a little. In this passage in chapter 9 Daniel was pouring out his heart to God in repentance regarding the sin of his people and his own sin [9:20]. He was still in prayer when Gabriel came [9:21] and delivered his message [9:24-27].

Gabriel said,  As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given... [Da. 9:23]. An answer to what? Daniel's prayer of confession! We must interpret this passage in the context of Daniel confessing the grave sins of his people. 

The angelic message is a time frame of 70 sevens decreed for Israel and Jerusalem to do these things:

• Finish the transgression
• put an end to sin
• atone for iniquity
• bring in everlasting righteousness
• seal both vision and prophet
• anoint a most holy place.

The interlinear translation reads as follows:

Transgression, to finish [shut up, restrain]; [for] your holy city, for your people... are determined seventy weeks; and to [also] bring in; iniquity, to make reconciliation; for sins, to make an end of [chatham, to seal up]; Holy Holy to anoint; and prophecy, vision, to seal up [also chatham]; everlasting righteousness.

Let's insert a few of what we think are clearer words into the text:

Seventy weeks are determined for Israel and Jerusalem, to shut up and restrain the transgression, to seal up sin, and to atone for iniquity; to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up both visions and prophets, and to anoint the Holy of holies.

This list of things they must do within the 70 sevens is the answer to Daniel's confession. Israel must deal with its sin and a number of things will result. While it is possible that some part of the passage is messianic, it more naturally applies to the nation of Israel being called to repentance and cast out its sin.

Interestingly, Daniel wrote all this in approximately 604 BC, just 18 years before Nebuchadnezzar. 70 sevens are often interpreted as years, but we know of no principle where this must be interpreted as years. Maybe they were months or days?  If they were months it would be about 40 years. If they were actual days, it would be just short of 18 months. 

Make up your own scenario, it will be just as valid as any other. However, if we are not talking years, then it seems possible that Daniel was given a more pressing time period to warn Jerusalem to repent before Nebuchadnezzar was going to destroy them.

Gotquestions wants the passage to apply to our future. But we think it must be possible that Gabriel's statements applied to a nearer destruction during Daniel's time and not to our own.)

Daniel’s entire prophecy of the seventy sevens (Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth seven, the tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time. (The Church is surely on the earth during the Great Tribulation: 

Re. 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes — who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Re. 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Re. 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Re. 12:11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

Re. 13:7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them.

Re. 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No-one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

Re. 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

Re. 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

Re. 15:2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name.

Re. 16:15 “Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

Re. 18:4-5 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; 5 for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

Re. 18:20: Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you.

The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. (Actually, it's the only one.)

It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. (Sigh. Why not quote it? 

1Th. 4:15-17 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord for ever.

The rapture is God’s removing of His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. (As we noted above, there will be believers in the Great Tribulation. Gotquestions will not mention this let alone discuss it.

The simple fact of the matter is that 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is not about the tribulation. Paul's point was that there are two possibilities, wrath or salvation. Those who are saved escape God's wrath. That's it.

The Great Tribulation is only a manifestation of God's wrath on earth, it is not specifically God's wrath itself.)

The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together. (We do not determine doctrine based on what seems to be.)

Another crucial passage on the timing of the rapture is Revelation 3:10, in which Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. (No, He promises to deliver the Philadelphian church [Re. 3:7]. This is one of seven letters to seven churches existing in the first century. We simply cannot insert ourselves into Bible verses willy-nilly. 

Let's quote the verse: 

Re. 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

The obvious question is, what has the Philadelphian church patiently endured? Well, tribulation. Because they have endured tribulation, that they will be kept from the hour of trial that will overtake the whole earth. Was this trial the Great Tribulation? No, because 2000 years have passed since Jesus gave them this promise. It was referring to some sort of widespread trouble of that time, probably the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

None of us will escape tribulation: 

Ja. 1:2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds...

Jn. 16:33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

So why would we be exempted from the Great Tribulation? We frankly don't understand this fear of tribulation.)

This could mean two things. Either Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or He will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept from. It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the tribulation. (No, His promise is to the Philadelphian church.)

The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation. (Thus Gotquestions closes with the astounding claim that their interpretation is the best one. Wow.