Rapture vs Second Coming: Back to the Future, Part 4 - by Clint Archer

Found here. Our comments in bold. Part five is here. Part six and seven are here.

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This is confused thinking and bad teaching. The author makes up distinctions and categories, and from that creates a false chronology in opposition to the Scriptures. 
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Jesus’ First Coming was the advent of a baby in Bethlehem; his Second Coming is divided into two stages – which we will look at today:

1. RAPTURE

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ii) When is Rapture?

Using solely the “good” view from last week, we see that there are three possible points on the timeline in relation to the Tribulation that the Rapture could occur. We will look at the Tribulation in more detail later in the series, but note for now that the Tribulation is a 7-year period, where Jews are saved, where Christians are universally persecuted, and when there are a series of devastating natural disasters and supernatural disasters. It is a time of judgment predicted in Daniel, (the so-called Daniel’s 70th week) and described in Revelation 6-19.

The three views are known as:

a) pre-Trib – that the Rapture takes place before the 7-year Tribulation
b) mid-Trib – that the Rapture takes place before the mid-way through the 7-year Tribulation 

c) post-Trib – that the Rapture takes place after the 7-year Tribulation (i.e. with the Return of Christ).

The most likely view is pre-Trib, for two main reasons…

i) The church is not mentioned in Revelation 6-19 as being on earth during the judgments. As soon as the judgments begin – there is no mention of the Church. (Waaait. The author just told us, the Tribulation is a 7-year period, where Jews are saved, where Christians are universally persecuted... How could there be persecution of the church if the church has been raptured?

Besides, it is spectacularly false to claim the church has been raptured and is not present. The author is either ignorant or being deceptive. There are several Scriptures between chapter 6-19 indicating the church is present:

Re. 13:7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them.

This is the beast, who was able to exercise his authority for 42 months (Rev. 13:5). He is given power to make war against the saints, so there must be saints present.

Re. 14:12-13 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus. 13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

Christians are dying in the Lord during the Tribulation, after patient endurance. 

Re. 15:2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name.

This is a scene in heaven, where certain saints, who are victorious over the beast and his number, receive harps and a song to sing (Re. 15:3-4). That is, these saints are on earth and doing battle against the beast.

Re. 16:15 “Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

So we find in the middle of the judgments that Christians are supposed to be prepared for His return. And the very next verse describes the gathering at Armageddon, so this means the church is on earth during the tribulation.

Re. 18:4-5 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; 5 for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

How can God's people come out of Babylon the Great if they are not there on earth?) 

This makes sense of course. God’s wrath is being poured out on those who have rejected him – not his Bride, and (No, the author makes no sense. Again, the author told us, the Tribulation is a 7-year period, where Jews are saved, where Christians are universally persecuted... So which is it? Do Christians suffer during the Tribulation, or do they get raptured out before?

He is likely deriving this statement from

1Th. 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Aside from the fact that Paul is contrasting wrath with salvation, the author would need to demonstrate that going through the Tribulation is synonymous with experiencing His wrath. This is the common assumption made by Pre-tribbers, but the Bible doesn't teach this.

The Bible tells us:

2Pe. 2:9 ...if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.

Interesting. Peter explains it for the benefit of the author. God knows how to rescue us while at the same time punishing the wicked.

And Jesus tells us,

Mt. 24: 21-22: For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

We can see the elect will be right in the thick of things, but Jesus mercifully shortens that time.)

ii) There’s no point to the Rapture if it happens at the end of the tribulation. It would not make sense for Jesus to remove the Church and then immediately return us to the Kingdom. (Of course this makes no sense, because no one we know of has postulated such a series of events. But more to the point, what is the author getting at? Why is the Kingdom relevant? And why would Jesus "immediately" do this?

What doesn't make sense is the author's undocumented assertion.)

In John 14:1-3 Jesus promises that he will return to gather his people to himself that we will be with him. From the context we will be with him in Heaven – and not back on earth. (What in the world is the author talking about? Why would the raptured church be back on earth?

Let's quote the verses:

Jn. 14:1-3 Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Jesus assures the disciples that He is going back to heaven where He has prepared a place for them. We certainly do not see why this verse is relevant. It has nothing to do with the rapture or the tribulation.)

2. RETURN

This refers to the second stage of Jesus’ Second Coming, (Actually, it would appear that it is Jesus' third coming.)

the time when he comes to establish the 1000 Kingdom (sic) on earth. We refer to this as the Glorious Coming. (We would contest the idea that Jesus sets up His millennial Kingdom on earth. Let's quote the extended passage:

Re. 20:1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations any more until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth — Gog and Magog — to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Having reviewed the passage, we find there is no statement that Jesus reigns on earth. The saints who were executed during the reign of the beast are resurrected and reign "with Christ." John says he saw thrones and these persecuted saints. It seems pretty clear this is a heavenly scene.

It is only when satan is released at the end of the thousand years that there is mention of earth. The evil nations will be gathered around the "camp" [actually, the army's fortress] of "God's people" [actually, the holy ones] in the "city He loves" [Jerusalem]. There is no battle at all, since all that happens is a fire descending from heaven. Poof, the evil nations are gone.

Satan is thrown in the lake of fire, and then we find the Great White Throne judgment [Re. 20:11]. Then in Rev. 21 we find the new heaven and the new earth with the holy city descending to the earth. This is the body of Christ , "prepared as a bride." 

Then the big pronouncement: "Now the dwelling of God is with men [Re. 21:3]." That's when we find the Kingdom fully implemented on earth.

Also, the "glorious coming" is the Last Day, the Day of the Lord, the final day of the Last Days.)

This is what Jesus is talking about as recorded by Matthew in Matt 25:31–34 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [i.e. the Millennial Kingdom] (The author quotes Scripture, but then adds an editorial comment at the end, which he doesn't explain or document. In actual fact, this is the Great White Throne judgment, which happens after the evil nations are devoured with fire [Re. 20:9].)

This passage is referring to the Return (Glorious Coming), when Jesus comes with his angels and the glorified Christians, to set up and reign in the Kingdom on earth. (Where did these sheep come from, if the church was raptured seven years before?)

This happens 7 years after the Rapture and they are not the same events. (This is the matter to be demonstrated. The author needs to prove this from the Bible, not merely re-assert it.)

Other views on eschatology view these two events as one and the same – but I think that from the various passages – the Return is not the same as the Rapture – there are distinct differences in their descriptions:

– With Rapture Christ comes for us in the air and takes us with him, (Let's quote the verse:

1Th. 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord for ever.

Does the reader see anywhere in this passage that Jesus takes us with him? It doesn't say that, the author simply infers it. We infer the opposite, that the saints meet Him in the air, He welcomes them to heaven, and then continues on to earth to execute judgment.)

in his Glorious Coming (the Matthew passage) – Jesus comes to dwell with us; (Waaait. The author just finished telling us that Jesus takes us with Him. Now he says that Jesus comes to dwell with us. Which is it? We have just discovered that He comes to dwell in us when the New Jerusalem descends from heaven.

Let's quote a bit of the Matthew 25 passage: When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. He is also pictured on the throne in Re. 21:5.

Jesus is in heaven on His throne. Where does it say that Jesus will come to dwell with us at this particular point?)

– With Rapture – Jesus gathers his people himself; at his Glorious Coming, his angels do the gathering; (Hmmm. The author told us there were distinct differences. So supposedly this distinct difference is who is doing the gathering. 

Jesus gathers: Mt. 3:12, Mt. 12:30, Mt. 23:37,

The Angels gather: Mt. 13:39, Mt. 24:31, Mk. 13:27

It would certainly be nice if the author documented these claims with Scripture.)

-With Rapture, Jesus comes to reward (1 Thess 4:17); in is Glorious Coming – he comes to judge (Mat 25:31-46); (Sigh. This is getting tiring. 

Mt. 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.' "

This certainly sounds like Jesus is doing some rewarding.

The author will now tell us that Jesus rewards the saints by rapturing them, which would mean that there is no one on earth except the wicked, who Jesus judges. Thus the author creates arbitrary distinctions without thinking about why they are the way they are.)

– With Rapture the believers depart the earth and only unbelievers remain to usher in the Tribulation, but with Jesus’ Glorious Coming – the unbelievers are taken away and the believers (saved in the Rapture) (Waaait. We thought that Christians wouldn't experience the wrath of God. That's what the author previously told us. But apparently some Christians do experience God's wrath. If this makes sense to the reader, we salute you.)

remain to populate the Millennial Kingdom; (The author documents none of this.)

– With Rapture there is no mention of the Kingdom, but the Kingdom begins with Jesus’ Glorious Coming. (No, the Kingdom began at Pentecost. That's the marker of the Kingdom, when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father [Ac. 2:33]. That's where Stephen saw Him [Ac. 7:56]. That's where He's interceding for us [Ro. 8:34].

The resurrection is the moment of kingship [Ep. 1:20, Col. 3:1, He. 1:3].

The author is wrong.)

We see the sequence of events here.

1. At the last trump, which is the Day of the Lord (Rev.11:15. 1 Cor.15:52)
2. The dead shall be raised 1 Cor.15:52. John 6:44
3. And we shall be changed (raptured). 1 Cor.15:52

We know when the resurrection will be, the Last Day.Jn. 6:40, 44:

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 44 ...No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

CONCLUSION

You might be saying – so what? Well, be encouraged, as Paul says to the Thessalonians, that Christ is not angry with his church. He will protect his Bride, keep us from harm, keep us from wrath and judgment and anger. Secondly, be urgent in your evangelism. There is nothing worse on earth than to endure the Great Tribulation.

Jesus came once, as the Scriptures promised.

Jesus will come again, as the Scriptures promise.