Responding to the False Teaching of Bethel Church, Jesus Culture, and Todd White - by Gabe Hughes

Found here. My comments in bold.

--------------------------

I am publishing an excerpt of a Q and A regarding a criticism of Bethel Church. My intent is not to defend Bethel, but rather to examine some of the answerer's statements.

First, the question:

--------------

You still don't have proof. God manifest His glory in myriads of ways. What Moses experienced was unique and only occurred one time in the Bible. What about the cloud that was present in the camp? God was present in the cloud by day and the fire by night. God was present in the cloud that covered the tabernacle in the midst of over 2 million people. "Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle" (Exodus 40:34). I'm not defending Bethel but you have made baseless accusations that you simply cannot verify. You do not know with absolutely certainly whether or not your accusations are true. Why not send someone to collect some of the dust and have it analyzed?

Ben
Overland Park, KS

Now the answer:

Understand something: It is Bethel Church that calls this glitter-and-fog-machine manifestation a "glory cloud." That's their name for it, not mine. If it was the glory of God, it would kill everyone in that room. (This is simply false. The author informs us of a "fact," but does not document it. No reference is supplied.

Contrary to the author's undocumented, false assertion, the glory of the LORD does not automatically kill people:

Le. 9:23 Moses and Aaron then went into the Tent of Meeting. When they came out, they blessed the people; and the glory of the LORD appeared to all the people.

2Ch. 5:13-14 The trumpeters and singers joined in unison, as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals and other instruments, they raised their voices in praise to the LORD and sang: “He is good; his love endures for ever.” Then the temple of the LORD was filled with a cloud, 14 and the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the temple of God.

2Ch. 7:1-3 When Solomon finished praying, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices, and the glory of the LORD filled the temple. 2 The priests could not enter the temple of the LORD because the glory of the LORD filled it. 3 When all the Israelites saw the fire coming down and the glory of the LORD above the temple, they knelt on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshipped and gave thanks to the LORD, saying, “He is good; his love endures for ever.”

Lk. 2:8 And there were shepherds living out in the fields near by, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 

Ac. 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 

The pillars of cloud and fire described in Exodus 14 were not a display of God in His glory. (The cloud was not part of the glory of the Lord? In what way? Why is this the case? Who does the author refer to for support?

In Exodus 14 an unusual manifestation appears, and if the author happened to be standing there that day, he would tell the assembled people, "Sorry, dudes. That there is not the glory of the Lord."

Clouds, lightning, earthquakes, thunder. Stars shaken. Churning waters. Many things manifest the Glory of the Lord. Contrary to the author's assertion, the Scriptures provide us with quite a different picture regarding clouds:

Ex. 16:10 While Aaron was speaking to the whole Israelite community, they looked towards the desert, and there was the glory of the LORD appearing in the cloud.

1Kg. 8:10-11 When the priests withdrew from the Holy Place, the cloud  filled the temple of the LORD. 11 And the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled his temple.

Is. 4:5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy.

Further, Bethel called it a "glory cloud" by the author's own admission. Did they claim it was literally God's glory itself? Since the author is making the distinction and all?

So again the author makes a false statement. In fact it is inane.)

Exodus 14:19 says that it was an angel of God that was in the pillar of cloud (not to be confused with the Angel of the Lord). (Whaaa? An angel of God is different than the angel of the Lord? The author casually tosses out assertions like these without documentation or reference, and expects the reader to simply accept them.

Pastor Hughes, explain to us the difference between "God" and "the Lord," would you please? And please tell us why it's important? Who exactly are these angels? Why is your point relevant? 

Answer us, please. Sir, you have an obligation to make clear the reasons you would write things like this. You cannot simply dangle these statements and then move on.)

In Exodus 40:34, "The cloud covered the tent of meeting" and "the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle" are two different statements. It's not saying the cloud which was the glory of God filled the tabernacle. (Again the author dangles a statement and does nothing to explain what he means. No citation, no reference, no explanation. Why is it important to know, sir?

Again we turn to Scripture to note that the Glory of the Lord frequently involves clouds:

Ex. 24:15-18 When Moses went up on the mountain, the cloud covered it, 16 and the glory of the LORD settled on Mount Sinai. For six days the cloud covered the mountain, and on the seventh day the LORD called to Moses from within the cloud. 17 To the Israelites the glory of the LORD looked like a consuming fire on top of the mountain. 18 Then Moses entered the cloud as he went on up the mountain. And he stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights. 

Ex. 40:34-35 Then the cloud covered the Tent of Meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35 Moses could not enter the Tent of Meeting because the cloud had settled upon it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

Ps. 97:2 Clouds and thick darkness surround him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. 

Da. 7:13 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. 

Mt. 26:64 “Yes, it is as you say,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 

Re. 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no-one could enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. 

You see, we are happy to refute the author with documentation. And we long for his reciprocation.)

Furthermore, it's as if Ben didn't actually watch the whole video (which is only 90-seconds long). The book of Exodus is not the only Scriptural evidence given as to how I know God's glory is not appearing in gold dust at Bethel Church. Hebrews 1:1-3 explicitly states that God does not appear to us in such ways anymore. He speaks to us through His Son, Jesus Christ, through His word, the Bible -- which is not preached at Bethel Church. (Wow. That's quite a statement. Since the author is loathe to, it falls to us to actually quote the Scripture:

He. 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Having read the actual Scripture, do you see anywhere in it a mention of the glory of the Lord, clouds, or manifestations? Anything there regarding miracles? And, does speaking though His Son mean anything other than speaking through His Son? 

Indeed, does the verse even mention Scripture? Is speaking through His Son synonymous with the Bible? We answer each question with a "no." In fact, nothing in this Scripture has anything to do with the matter at hand.) 

That's how I know they are liars and deceivers, and they're piping in gold dust and fog through their ventilation system.

Thank the Lord, I don't need to invest the time and money to go to Bethel church and scoop up some gold dust to have it analyzed or crawl through their air ducts and take pictures. I have a much more infallible resource -- the word of God. If you won't believe that word, you'd never believe any other form of proof.