Mountain Man Trails: Criticizing Antifa

I posted this on FB:

"Antifa activists... told CNN that their goal is peace and inclusivity... And their methods are often violent. Antifa leaders admit they're willing to physically attack anyone who employs violence against them or who condones racism -- as long as force is used in the name of eradicating hatred."

Unmasking the leftist Antifa movement

Antifa activists told CNN their goal is peace and inclusivity. But often, their methods are violent.

CNN.COM

Comment

Kevin: Well....hypocritical statement from...HYPOCRITES!

Manage

LikeReply17 hrs

Manage

Julie: Home grown terrorism in the name of PEACE. EVIL IS THEIR GAME.

Reply17 hrs

Evan: Is the headline misleading or something? I don't have time to read the article at the moment, but using the article's title quite literally (and just out of curiosity) would you not physically attack someone if s/he was employing violence against you? And follow up question.... does the right not insanely support the war machine "as long as force is used in the name of eradicating hatred"? ...aka terrorism? And in the name of creating peace? If you call these people hypocrites, should you not also be calling our government (and particularly the right) hypocrites?

16 hrsEdited

Benjamin ·

Pretty much. These people represent a very small minority. I don't agree with being violent toward someone simply because they're racist... certainly acting in self-defense is perfectly valid.

Also, anyone who values democracy and hates Nazi's is by definition "anti-fascist." I don't hear too many Americans lamenting the "anti-fascist" violence that stormed the beaches of Normandy.

15 hrs

Jason ·

Benjamin I think some may have issue with the indiscriminate use of the term nazi. Though certainly in recent events it does apply. But I don't think governments and policy makers should make decisions for their voters because of the actions of a leftist violent mob.

Reply15 hrsEdited

Benjamin ·

Jason when I use the term Nazis, I'm talking about people who wear swastikas, idolize Hitler, use phrases like blood and soil, do the fucking salute… And I'm also generally referencing their hillbilly cousins the kkk. Both, nationalistic groups who want an ethnostate by any means necessary.

15 hrs

Jason ·

Benjamin no argument from me there. Though I don't think some members of antifa make those distinctions. Just because they're fighting nazis doesn't make them the good guys.

15 hrsEdited

Benjamin ·

Jason that's entirely true.

Reply15 hrs

Manage

Me: Benjamin Allison You will refrain from using profanities. This is my thread, and I will not tolerate such behavior.

Reply14 hrs

Manage

Me: Evan, Hypocrisy is not an equation to be balanced. Whatever someone else does or does not do does not justify someone else's behavior. These people are violent extremists, pretending to be anti-fascist while engaging in fascism. Moral equivalence is irrelevant.

Reply14 rs

Evan: Rich while I agree that hypocrisy is not something to be justified tit for tat, I stand by my original point that it's comical to call out a hypocrite while simultaneously not recognizing "our" (read "your") own faults or "our" (again, ready "your") party's faults. Remove the log before the speck, correct? Why aren't you posting articles bashing the KKK/white supremacy "peaceful" gatherings? Why only the liberals, BLM movement, etc?

Furthermore, someone's behavior does in fact justify another's behavior. When 9/11 happened, we hunted down and shot Osama Bin Laden in the face. Hitler and the Nazis were trying to exterminate the Jews, so we bombed the **** out of them. If someone touched my child inappropriately, I would make sure that person was never able to walk or use the toilet properly again. The truth is, actions CAN be justified based on the acts of others. Not always, but they certainly can be.

Reply14 hrs

Benjamin ·

Rich can you give me a list of approved words? Just to be on the safe side.

12 hrs

Manage

Me: Evan You don't seem to understand. I was calling out the justification of one groups behavior for doing violence by another. There is no justification for such a thing. Antifa is a violent extremist group, period, who claims to be non violent while engaging in violence. No other factor is relevant.

Reply1 hr

Me: Benjamin There is no list of approved words. You used an egregious profanity, and I asked you to stop. A mature person would apologize.

Reply1 hr

Benjamin ·

Rich, things you find profane, others don't.

How am I to know in advance which particular words are offensive to you?

Reply53 mins

Evan: Rich, just by saying "no other factor is relevant" doesn't make the prefacing statement true.

Example: "The sky is purple. No other factor is relevant."

As stated before, the actions of others can in fact instigate justified violence. I'm not saying this particular group is or isn't justified. I'm just saying that blanket statements are a slippery slope.

52 mins

Benjamin ·

Rich, Antifa is a RESPONSE to growing fascism in America. You can disapprove of its tactics, sure... but if you're not as outraged but the far more violent, racist, fascist movement it exists to counter – which killed a woman through an explicit act of terror – you've got a blind spot.

Reply36 mins

Me: The article was was about Antifa. My comments about Antifa. I also didn't mention the evils of Pol Pot or Richard Nixon. I have no obligation to note other evils simply because I happen to discuss a certain, specified, noteworthy evil.

Antifa SAYS they're responding to fascism. No, they're not. They're professional leftist activists who are bused in and paid to raise havoc. They are haters pretending to be noble while beating up grandmothers and destroying innocent peoples' property. Why do you believe them?

Perhaps you might tell me why you seem inclined to excuse these people.

Reply30 minsEdited

Me: Benjamin, I have explained to you that profanity is not allowed. It's quite simple. A mature person would apologize.

Reply27 mins

Evan: Rich I'm not saying reckless behavior, rioting, or looting is justified. But showing up at alt-right rallies and shutting down hate speech is fine by me.

Excerpt from article linked at the bottom of this comment:
"The idea in Antifa is that we go where they (right-wingers) go. That hate speech is not free speech. That if you are endangering people with what you say and the actions that are behind them, then you do not have the right to do that.

"And so we go to cause conflict, to shut them down where they are, because we don't believe that Nazis or fascists of any stripe should have a mouthpiece."

Reply23 mins

Jason ·

I would disagree, antifa was crazy before Trump. They're just emboldened. Remember Berkeley?

17 mins

Manage

Me: Unfortunately, anyone who decides what someone may or may not say is a tyrant. Using violence to achieve one's aim is not morally noble. If a person cannot disagree with someone without violence, they are little more than animals.

Reply14 mins

Evan:Jason I do. And I was not a fan. I'm not justifying Berkeley. Or mob mentality. Or a few misfits that get out of control speaking for the entirety of a group like Antifa.

Reply14 mins

Evan: Rich so our government is little more than animals?

Reply14 mins

Benjamin ·

But I'm not sorry... I have no reason to be sorry for using a perfectly legitimate word, or the fact that it violated some private, arbitrary, and previously unknowable sensibilities.

Reply13 mins

Me: You seem to want to continue to push moral equivalency. I am not interested in pursuing other topics here.

Reply13 mins

Jason ·

I was responding to Ben. I don't think that antifa is a response to fascism. I think that they're a movement grown out of post-modernism in universities.

Reply13 mins

Evan: Jason fair enough

Reply12 mins

Me: Benjamin Then you are not worthy of respect.

Reply11 mins

Evan: But I think that Antifa is broader than that, and the only ones that get publicized are the ones chucking Molotov cocktails

Reply11 mins

Manage

Jason ·

Evan totally, a group is not just one thing. There are certainly non violent members. And there are members who are looking for an excuse for anarchy. The concerning part is that you've a got a violent group swastikas and a violent group with the hammer and sickle. The hammer and sickle by far has the higher body count. Yet the nazis are the subject of MSM coverage and the other is not. Both are detestable. The fact that the term alt right has been thrown at Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin (both Jewish) should be concerning because it illustrates how antifa and MSM use the term to demonized anyone with a dissenting view.

Reply7 mins

Mountain Man Trails

Wednesday, August 23, 2017

Criticizing Antifa

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