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I haven't commented on a Steve Finnell article for quite some time, mostly because he posts incessantly about water baptism. Yeah, we get it, Steve. We know you think we gotta be baptized to be saved. Move on already.
So today's post attracted my attention because of the twisting of Scripture to suit his beliefs.
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What do modern day apostles believe about themselves?
Do they believe they are receiving direct revelation from God the Father? Do they think that their words are Scripture? Do they believe that when they record their thoughts in church catechisms and new books of revelation they writing Scripture inspired by God?
What does the Bible say about the apostles chosen by Jesus Christ? (Actually, Mr. Finnell is about to tell us about Paul's view on his own apostleship. Paul's apostleship was under fire, and he found it necessary to establish his credentials. For example, 2Co. 12:11:
1. Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead).(NKJV)
Have those who claimed to be modern day apostles had a Damascus road experience? Where they chosen directly by Jesus. (Um, yeah. Is Paul making some claim that apostles are chosen only by Jesus? What about Matthias? Ac. 1:26 "Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles." Was he "chosen directly by Jesus?"
And Barnabas? Acts 14:14 “But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: `Men, why are you doing this?"'
Andranicus and Junias? Romans 16:7 "Greet Andranicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.")
2. Galatians 1:11-12 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received if from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.(NKJV)
Have men today who believe that they are apostles because of apostolic succession received revelation through Jesus Christ? (There is no such thing as "apostolic succession." And note that the verse in question does not say that this is an identifying characteristic of an apostle.)
3. 2 Peter 3:15-16 ...Paul, accord to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all of his epistles.....as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. (NKJV)
All of the apostle Paul's letters were, in fact, Scriptures. (Incorrect. Paul wrote at least one other letter to the Corinthian church. (1Co. 5:9 "I have written to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people..."
And we also don't have the letter written to the Laodician church, referenced in Col. 4:16: "After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea."
We also don't have a copy of the letter Paul wrote to "God’s elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia," referenced in 2 Pe. 3:15: "Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him.")
You might think I'm picking nits regarding this issue, but this man presumes to instruct us on correct doctrine, yet he himself fails at basic facts of Scripture. We then should call into question everything he tells us, because he is prone to err.)
Are the writings in church catechisms and books of, so-called, new revelation, Scriptures inspired by God? (No. There is no requirement for them to be.)
4. John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (NKJV)
Jesus told the apostles the Holy Spirit would teach them all things. Which of the modern day apostles did Jesus say that? (This promise is for all believers, not just the apostles. Any honest reading of the passage in question will quickly yield the realization that this is part of a much longer discourse, starting at 14:1 through the end of chapter 17, and clearly is addressed to every believer. Let's look at some excerpts to see if it was intended only for the apostles.
John tells us this: 1 John 2:20 "But you have an unction from the Holy One, and you know all things." "all things," also translated all truth, πάντες, is something we are all promised. Clearly all truth is not exclusive to the apostles.
Further, Paul as an apostle possessed "all truth," and that revelatory truth was what he wrote down in the form of epistles. Yet for some reason, despite him possessing "all truth," he talked over and over about how we are to desire the gifts, especially prophecy! Why would he do that? Why wouldn't he simply tell them more of the "truth," rather than command them to seek it themselves?)
5. 2 Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.(NKJV)
Do the modern day apostles write Holy Scriptures in their creed books and so books of new revelation? (No. There is no requirement for this.)
Can their writing make men wise to salvation? (Possibly. There are many authors who have written over the centuries, making people wise, preparing the way for salvation. The author himself presumes to instruct us in his version of correct doctrine. Does he intend to make men wise?)
6. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God...
The writings of the apostles chosen by Jesus Christ were God breathed Scripture.
Who believes that the writings of modern day apostles are God breathed Scriptures? I, for one, do not believe that they are writing Scripture. (Nor should you, Mr. Finnell. There is no requirement for anyone to write Scripture. indeed, the canon is closed.)
If what the modern day apostles are writing in their creed books, church catechisms, and books of new revelation are not Scripture, then of what value are they? (What value are your writings, sir?)
Modern day revelation that is synonymous with the Bible is unnecessary. (False. "Modern day revelation" is no different than the gift of prophecy described in 1Co. 14:3: "But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort." There was a lot of prophesying going on in that church, and none of it became Scripture. )
Modern day revelation that contradicts the Bible is false doctrine. (True.)
THERE ARE NO MODERN DAY APOSTLES THAT ARE SENT BY GOD THE FATHER. (An unwarranted conclusion. The author has not even addressed the issue.)
I haven't commented on a Steve Finnell article for quite some time, mostly because he posts incessantly about water baptism. Yeah, we get it, Steve. We know you think we gotta be baptized to be saved. Move on already.
So today's post attracted my attention because of the twisting of Scripture to suit his beliefs.
---------------------------
What do modern day apostles believe about themselves?
Do they believe they are receiving direct revelation from God the Father? Do they think that their words are Scripture? Do they believe that when they record their thoughts in church catechisms and new books of revelation they writing Scripture inspired by God?
What does the Bible say about the apostles chosen by Jesus Christ? (Actually, Mr. Finnell is about to tell us about Paul's view on his own apostleship. Paul's apostleship was under fire, and he found it necessary to establish his credentials. For example, 2Co. 12:11:
"I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the 'super-apostles,' even though I am nothing."And 1Co. 9:1-3:
"Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me."So, what Paul says about apostleship applies to himself. We find no evidence of him explaining these things in terms of "this only is what an apostle is.")
1. Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead).(NKJV)
Have those who claimed to be modern day apostles had a Damascus road experience? Where they chosen directly by Jesus. (Um, yeah. Is Paul making some claim that apostles are chosen only by Jesus? What about Matthias? Ac. 1:26 "Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles." Was he "chosen directly by Jesus?"
And Barnabas? Acts 14:14 “But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: `Men, why are you doing this?"'
Andranicus and Junias? Romans 16:7 "Greet Andranicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.")
2. Galatians 1:11-12 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received if from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.(NKJV)
Have men today who believe that they are apostles because of apostolic succession received revelation through Jesus Christ? (There is no such thing as "apostolic succession." And note that the verse in question does not say that this is an identifying characteristic of an apostle.)
3. 2 Peter 3:15-16 ...Paul, accord to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all of his epistles.....as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. (NKJV)
All of the apostle Paul's letters were, in fact, Scriptures. (Incorrect. Paul wrote at least one other letter to the Corinthian church. (1Co. 5:9 "I have written to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people..."
And we also don't have the letter written to the Laodician church, referenced in Col. 4:16: "After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea."
We also don't have a copy of the letter Paul wrote to "God’s elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia," referenced in 2 Pe. 3:15: "Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him.")
You might think I'm picking nits regarding this issue, but this man presumes to instruct us on correct doctrine, yet he himself fails at basic facts of Scripture. We then should call into question everything he tells us, because he is prone to err.)
Are the writings in church catechisms and books of, so-called, new revelation, Scriptures inspired by God? (No. There is no requirement for them to be.)
4. John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (NKJV)
Jesus told the apostles the Holy Spirit would teach them all things. Which of the modern day apostles did Jesus say that? (This promise is for all believers, not just the apostles. Any honest reading of the passage in question will quickly yield the realization that this is part of a much longer discourse, starting at 14:1 through the end of chapter 17, and clearly is addressed to every believer. Let's look at some excerpts to see if it was intended only for the apostles.
Jn. 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Jn. 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Jn. 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.
Jn. 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."
Jn. 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Jn. 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
Jn. 17:20-21 My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."No one." "Anyone." "Whoever." "all of them." These are global terms. These verses demonstrate that Jesus was not only speaking to the apostles. But even more, some of the greatest and most precious promises of Scripture are interspersed throughout this passage.
John tells us this: 1 John 2:20 "But you have an unction from the Holy One, and you know all things." "all things," also translated all truth, πάντες, is something we are all promised. Clearly all truth is not exclusive to the apostles.
Further, Paul as an apostle possessed "all truth," and that revelatory truth was what he wrote down in the form of epistles. Yet for some reason, despite him possessing "all truth," he talked over and over about how we are to desire the gifts, especially prophecy! Why would he do that? Why wouldn't he simply tell them more of the "truth," rather than command them to seek it themselves?)
5. 2 Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.(NKJV)
Do the modern day apostles write Holy Scriptures in their creed books and so books of new revelation? (No. There is no requirement for this.)
Can their writing make men wise to salvation? (Possibly. There are many authors who have written over the centuries, making people wise, preparing the way for salvation. The author himself presumes to instruct us in his version of correct doctrine. Does he intend to make men wise?)
6. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God...
The writings of the apostles chosen by Jesus Christ were God breathed Scripture.
Who believes that the writings of modern day apostles are God breathed Scriptures? I, for one, do not believe that they are writing Scripture. (Nor should you, Mr. Finnell. There is no requirement for anyone to write Scripture. indeed, the canon is closed.)
If what the modern day apostles are writing in their creed books, church catechisms, and books of new revelation are not Scripture, then of what value are they? (What value are your writings, sir?)
Modern day revelation that is synonymous with the Bible is unnecessary. (False. "Modern day revelation" is no different than the gift of prophecy described in 1Co. 14:3: "But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort." There was a lot of prophesying going on in that church, and none of it became Scripture. )
Modern day revelation that contradicts the Bible is false doctrine. (True.)
THERE ARE NO MODERN DAY APOSTLES THAT ARE SENT BY GOD THE FATHER. (An unwarranted conclusion. The author has not even addressed the issue.)
Greetings.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading your response it seems you are barking up the wrong tree. You made your point that there were more people in the Bible called apostles then most know about such as Barnabas, Andranicus and Junias. But I believe the article's author is speaking of the more narrow meaning of apostle as in the formal office of Apostle in Acts 1 not of the more board usage of apostles as in simply a messenger.
Anyone can and many do claim the title of Apostle. But claiming and fulfilling an office are two different things. I personally do not care if someone wants to call themselves an apostle as long as they are not referring to the the Apostles of Acts 1. But if they are claiming to be an apostle of the nature of Peter, John or Matthias they have much to prove. As anyone who claims an office great or small.
Many times we in our haste to point to Matthias being added to the Apostles we forget the other fellow, Barsabbas. He was not counted as one of the "twelve" yet I am sure he continued to preach the gospel and so was an "apostle" in the sense of messenger but clearly not as an Apostle.
The article's last line is by no means an unwarranted conclusion but simply a statement of the obvious. If there were modern day Apostles we would not be debating the issue on your blog or anywhere else.
So you and Mr. Finnell differ. He claims there are no apostles today. You admit that there could be, but not in the same category as the 12. Yet it is I who is barking up the wrong tree?
ReplyDelete