Answering the Opposition- Responses to the Most Frequently Raised Discernment Objections - by Michelle Lesley

Found here. Our comments in bold.

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Ms. Lesley, like many "discernment" types, is extremely sensitive when it comes to criticism [even mild] leveled at her. She happily blasts away at supposed false teachers, but when it comes to being on the receiving end, well, she gets pretty defensive.

We first note that Ms. Lesley never defines "discernment." She never shows us from the Bible where it describes what she is doing. In actual fact, there is no such thing as a discernment ministry beyond the four walls of the church she attends, and it's probably not her.

Second, Ms. Lesley commits several obvious doctrinal errors. Yet she considers herself a teacher. This is troubling.

Third, she will refer to the supposed false teacher as "twisted sister." This semi-disrespectful moniker means that she is describing a Christian person who has some things wrong. False teachers, however, are probably not Christians, and also lead publicly lascivious lifestyles.

Lastly, she quotes the Bible only when convenient. There are several instances (we have noted them as "Strikes") where she botches the contents of these unquoted Scriptures.

We must consider this Bad Bible Teaching.

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Originally published June 17, 2016

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1. Did you contact Ms. Twisted Sister in obedience to Matthew 18:15-20 before publishing this article about her?

No, I have not confronted Ms. Twisted Sister about her false teaching. Here’s why:

a. The Matthew 18 passage does not apply to public false teaching. It is about sin in the local congregation where you actually know the offender personally and have access to him/her. (Wow, Ms. Lesley obliquely wanders into the truth, if for only a second or two. We will discover that this correctly-reasoned objection actually applies to almost every other part of her "discernment" ministry. 

The fact of the matter is discernment only works in the local congregation.)

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3. But look how many people Ms. Twisted Sister is helping! I’ve grown so much in my relationship with the Lord because of her!

No you haven’t. It is impossible to grow to biblical, Christian maturity by following someone who teaches false doctrine, (As Ms. Lesley will tell us later, every teacher makes mistakes. Thus every teacher teaches false doctrine. We will soon explore her dividing line between true teachers who teach falsely and false teachers who teach falsely.)

just like it’s impossible to grow physically healthy by eating a diet of poison. The only kind of growing you can do by following a false teacher is growing away from the Lord, despite what you may think or feel. Second Timothy 3:7 clearly says that those who follow false teachers are “never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.” (Um, no. Let's quote: 

2Ti. 3:6-7 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

This passage is not about those who listen to false teaching. What this "clearly says" is that there will be a certain kind of people [2Ti. 3:2-6], and they will never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 

And, this passage is not even about false teachers. Strike One.

Now we have our first example of Ms. Lesley's obviously false teaching. Does that make her a false teacher, or a true teacher who makes mistakes?)

If it’s impossible for a teacher to lead you to know the truth of Scripture, how in the world is she helping you or anybody else? (We quoted the verse. Ms. Lesley is simply wrong.)

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4. You’re creating division and disunity by speaking out against Ms. Twisted Sister.

No, again, this demonstrates a lack of knowledge about what the Bible actually teaches. Scripture is abundantly clear that it is the false teachers, not those speaking out against them, who are creating division and disunity. See Jude 18-19 and Romans 16:17-18. (Sigh. Let's quote: 

Jude 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

Ro. 16:17-18 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.

Neither of these Scriptures are about false teachers. Strike Two. We ask again, does that make Ms. Lesley a false teacher, or is she a true teacher who makes mistakes?

But a better question we need to ask is, can a discernment minister cause disunity by the way they discern? That is, do discernment ministers restrict themselves to dispassionate evaluation of the content of teaching, or do they insult, denigrate, attack, or otherwise get personal with their discernment activities? 

It is possible to be 100% correct and still be divisive. A pedestrian legally occupies a crosswalk and steps out in the way of an oncoming car is 100% correct but still dead. Similarly, a discernment minister who is correct but who operates toward their targets without love, gentleness and respect, is divisive.)

The solution to this division and disunity is for false teachers to repent of their false doctrine, learn how to rightly handle and teach God’s word, and begin to teach sound doctrine, not for discerning Christians to keep quiet.

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6. You’re being unkind, unloving, ungodly, divisive, hateful, self-righteous, mean, critical, etc. for calling out false teachers.

Every single book of the New Testament except Philemon warns against false teachers or false doctrine. Jesus called out false teachers. (Let's quote: 

Luke 20:46-47 Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, 47 who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.

No mention of false teachers. Strike Three. We ask again, does that make Ms. Lesley a false teacher, or is she a true teacher who makes mistakes?)

So did Peter, (Let's quote: 

2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Finally something about false teachers. Peter tells us they are egregious sinners, blatant and publicly evil. Thus there needs to be a combination of bad teaching and obvious bad character for a person to be called a false teacher. This narrows the field of possible false teachers considerably.)

 Paul, (let's quote: 

2Ti. 2:17-18 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

Ah, Ms. Lesley is finally gaining some traction.)

 

 John, (Let's quote: 

2 John 9-11 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

Oops. This is not about a false teacher, it is about a visitor to someone's home who doesn't carry or bear the apostle's teaching.)

 Jude, (We aren't going to bother to quote, because the word "teacher" does not appear in the entire letter. We will be charitable and award a single strike. Strike Four. We ask again, does that make Ms. Lesley a false teacher, or is she a true teacher who makes mistakes?)

and other New Testament figures. And they usually did so much more harshly than I do. (Is she admitting she's harsh, but just not as harsh as the apostles operating under apostolic power and authority? Is this a proper comparison? We would think the spiritual fruit of gentleness [Ga. 5:23, Ep. 4:2, Ph. 4:5, Col. 3:12] would be occasionally evident among "discernment ministers.")

Are you ready to say that Jesus Himself and the apostles writing under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit were being unloving, ungodly, hateful, etc., for speaking against false teachers? (Equating herself and her "ministry" to Jesus and the apostles is unseemly.)

That’s a very serious allegation to make against the Jesus you claim to follow.

Discernment work, done properly (and I’m not denying that sometimes it’s done improperly) (Finally a concession. Now we would press her to explain how discernment is done improperly.)

is done out of love – love for the victims of false teachers. (But is it done WITH love?)

It’s the same love that sees an oblivious child in the street with a truck bearing down on him and snatches the child out of harm’s way. It is not loving to let people continue to believe false doctrine that may lead them to an eternity in hell without at least trying to rescue them. (She continues to confuse method with motive.)

Addressing Objections to Discernment- Part 4

7. Ms. Twisted Sister may not always be right but that doesn’t mean she’s a false teacher. We all get things wrong.

Following that logic, I would be accusing every pastor in the history of the New Testament church of being a false teacher, (This is exactly the place Ms. Lesley's logic takes her. Her standard for a false teacher is a moving target that could apply to anyone, based on nothing more than her sliding scale.)

including Paul and the apostles, because they have all made mistakes in their preaching at some point. And I’m certainly not doing that. (The question is obvious: How much false teaching is a teacher allowed before being branded a false teacher? What is the dividing line? In actual fact, the dividing line is clear for Ms. Lesley: A teacher who is Reformed/Calvinist is given almost unlimited leeway, while a charismatic/non-Calvinist is given absolutely zero.)

In the same way that a driver, despite taking every precaution, could one day accidentally hit and kill a pedestrian is different from a person who decides to go out and become a serial killer, there is a big difference between a pastor who generally preaches sound doctrine, makes an innocent mistake, repents of it, corrects it, and goes on to continue to preach sound doctrine, and a person who unrepentantly, and despite continued rebuke, wallows in false doctrine and rebelliously keeps teaching it. Let’s not pretend that the two are the same. These are not innocent mistakes these false teachers are making and repenting of. This is the continuous, rebellious, proclamation of false doctrine. (Where does the Bible tell us about innocent mistakes? How does Ms. Lesley tell the difference between that and the "rebellious" proclamation of false doctrine?)

Addressing Objections to Discernment- Part 3

8. Maybe Ms. Twisted sister says some things that are wrong, bibically, (sic) but she says some good things, too. I just “chew up the meat and spit out the bones”.

Please show me the Scripture, chapter and verse, in context that says that this is the way we are to deal with false teachers. (Ms. Lesley answers a question not asked. A person who says some things that are biblically wrong is not automatically a false teacher, as we discovered from question #7. 

Every Christian, including Ms. Lesley, listens to teachers and evaluates the truth of what is being taught by comparing it with Scripture [Or perhaps, the doctrines they've already learned and accepted]. They discard the false or mistaken, and accept the truth. This is what the Bereans did (Ac. 17:11). As we asked above, the real question is, where does Ms. Lesley draw the line? 

It's certainly not the "amount" of truth, at which point the error is just too great for her. That's not Ms. Lesley's method. Ms. Lesley's actual criteria is if she agrees with the teacher. That's it. If the teacher is regurgitating what she already thinks, he's not a false teacher no matter what he says.)

Hint - it doesn’t. It says exactly the opposite. It says we are to have nothing to do with false teachers, and that if we embrace them, we are taking part in their wicked works. See Romans 16:17-18, 2 John 9-11, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, Ephesians 5:11,and Titus 1:9-16. (Sigh. Let's quote these verses: 

[This is a repeat] Ro. 16:17-18 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.

[This is a repeat] 2Jn. 9-11 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

2Co. 6:14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? (...)

Ep. 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

Tit. 1:9-11 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. 10 For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. 11 They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach — and that for the sake of dishonest gain. (...)

So, dear reader, how many of these Scriptures are talking about false teachers? If you answered "one, Titus chapter one," go to the head of the class. And what does Paul tell Titus is the remedy? "They must be silenced." 

Hmm. Who does this silencing? Well, Paul was describing the duties and qualifications of elders [Tit. 1:6] that Titus was to appoint in every town in Crete. Is Ms. Lesley an elder? Is she refuting false teachers in her own church, or in other local churches for which she has oversight? Does she have any connection at all to these people that would allow her to separate herself from them?

Really, how did she gain this position where she sits at a distance and blasts away at pastors she disagrees with? Where in the Bible describes this "discernment ministry?" 

Where are we, Strike Five? We ask again, does that make Ms. Lesley a false teacher, or is she a true teacher who makes mistakes? Really, where should we draw the line? Or, should we even do so? No, we shall not. We will do what we've always done, evaluate the teaching of these folks, and leave the personal attacks out of it.)

Addressing Objections to Discernment- Part 3

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