FB friend B.R. posted this:
Since I am already complete in every way, what are my intentions for today?
Me: Apparently you are incomplete regarding intentions.
C.R.: OR, the 180 "Be really smug about your complete life". Either one could work, really.
B.R.: It's not being smug if everyone's got it, C.R..
B.R.: My intentions are completely inconsequential to my completeness, Rich.
C.R.: So many paradoxes. Well played, well played. ; )
T.W.: You think everyone's complete in every way?
B.R.: I don't think anyone needs anything externally to improve themselves internally. We are whole. There's plenty of personal merit to taking on goals and responsibilities, if that's how one chooses to spend their time, but there's simply nothing we can do, attain, or change that will improve who we are.
O.F.: See, I partially disagree, Ben. I think that our bodies and minds contain all the messages we need to tell us how we can still grow and develop into better, stronger, more loving beings, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. We are our own blueprint, and in that sense the blueprint is complete and just wants deciphering. But we are not islands, and I can't grow in love all by myself... I need something/someone whom I can love in order to do that. What do you think>
T.W.: A bit of a tautology, my friend. What everyone needs is the philosophy you just espoused, but that's much easier said than done. Also, studies show that up to a certain material point, more money/security does improve sense of well-being. That threshold is lower than we think, but it still exists. I guess I think of it this way, as an educated white person with enough free time to pursue my passions and enough money to not worry day to day, I think I should be careful not to espouse a philosophy of "We've all got what we need. Chill out, everybody!" Fair?
O.F.: Word. Part of the "blueprint" mentioned above is a very basic safety mechanism that says "I'M FUCKING HUNGRY!!!" when one is... fucking hungry, for example. Many saints and sages have done with very little food, but I don't know of any that finally kicked the habit...
B.R.: Sure, yes, I agree with your logic that there are basic human needs and benefits to seeking knowledge and experience. However, in my life I have a nagging feeling, sometimes conscious and sometimes unconscious, that I am not enough, that I am insufficient in some way, that I need to do or be something more. When I achieve something I want, this feeling is temporarily quieted, but it invariably returns. I have a good feeling that most of humanity shares this affliction. This fear, this feeling of incompleteness, is an illusion. I need more reminders in my life that it is an illusion, rather than more excuses that feed the ego's insecurity. I hope that helps you understand what I mean.
B.R.: urgently Googling "tautology"
O.F.: A logical loop.
O.F.: Do you think that ALL of the drives we experience towards attaining accomplishments are egoic? If so, I disagree.
E.B.: I think material pursuits are socio-economically taught and that we are conditioned to try and meet social norms. Personal satisfaction is subjective and relies on acquired gender,social,and sexual roles.
It's what u make of it.
T.W.: E.B., as weird as it sounds, it's also a material luxury to believe that material needs are a luxury, if that makes sense. But I do agree that there's a happy medium, and it's very very far from where most of us (including me, God knows) are.
B.R.: No, I don't think that. But the impression of what the ego is responsible for depends heavily on one's definition of ego. I don't just mean "A person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance". In this instance, what I mean by "ego" is interchangeable with "the mind". It is the mental construct of myself, which sees me as the limit of who I am, which depends on time and space to define and control this reality, which is the source of much joy and positivity, but which also feels threatened at virtually all times, and therefore attempts to hold me in a state of perpetual seeking. I believe the ego is capable of amazing things, in fact it's responsible for most of the things I see around me. It is also the source of countless illusory thought patterns that keep us from experiencing the vast peace that lives deep within us. I don't think the ego is evil, or wrong, or needs to be destroyed. I think it's an amazing and wonderful tool, which has many incredible uses and benefits. It's also responsible for a great number of atrocities, small and large, past and present. It's a tool that mostly uses us, instead of the other way around. It's the reason that stopping my thoughts is so difficult.
Me: We as people are clearly not complete. We are broken, fallible, prone to destruction, and warlike. That is essential human nature, and no amount of social manipulation will change that.
O.F.: Rich: I agree that social manipulation cannot change our fallibility. It's a matter of responsibility for every individual to contribute to a more loving, less ego-driven world. No one can MAKE us more loving, and attempts to do so only create more repression, more hate. @B.R.: I think we are using a similar working definition of ego (though mind to me is something that includes but is not entirely delimited by ego). My point is simply that some accomplishments, spiritual, athletic, creative, political, are attained in a manner that is actually quite selfless. Becoming better, greater at something, actually REQUIRES the breaking down of false ideas of what we are. Accomplishment can be in the service of a more loving world, of making us more loving beings. Would you agree? We might not be arguing...
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