C.Y., A FB friend, posted this:
Things I've Been Pondering On
I am realizing as I get older how much I have been relying on my parents as watchmen, protectors, and interceders in my life. But in order to mature in Christ I have to take up that responsibility in my life and be my own interceder and protector from the enemy who wants to steal, kill and destroy. Not saying that my parents still intercede on my behalf but I must fight for myself and not rely on someone else doing it for me. The scriptures that I have been pondering upon that speak to this point have been:
1 Cor. 13:11-12 - When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Ephesians 6:10-17 - Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
J.T.: You go! As you wrestle against the spiritual forces of darkness and have victory in your own life, you will become a beacon in the night for others that you can teach to stand up and fight like you learned!
Me: You are experiencing one of many such moments in life I would call times of reckoning. A reckoning is an assessment of your status, from the word "reconcile," to make things agree. As you agree more and more with God, you reckon yourself to be dead in the flesh but alive in Christ. You reconcile (bring into agreement) your purposes with God's. You become more christlike.
My, my, my. How you have grown.
R.H.: James tells us to jst ask for wisdom, and HE will grant it, and that every obstacle is a great opportunity for thanksgiving, for when our faith is tested, our perseverence is increased and faith is perfected. We can't ask our parents, or friends for this wisdom, but we can certainly ask for prayer for these things, but we must also ask ourselves. :)
Me: With all due respect to R.H., the body of the believers is a fount of heavenly wisdom. Ironically, you are giving wisdom that a person's source of wisdom is Yahweh?
R.H.: I am not quite understanding your question exactly? I can read that a few ways, so if you do'nt mind clarifying..... the body is a fountain of wisdom, but lacking in wisdom too. If it were THE fountain of wisdom, then we'd have no need for asking GOD for wisdom, yes? it is good to ask our friends for wisdom, and advice, but ultimately, does not James say to ask? I am pretty sure. I shoudl have phrased it "ask only friends/believers, etc, for this wisdom, but ultimately, it DOES come from GOD, and so, still, we should ask.
It's a bit like asking John to ask that girl over there for a date, instead of asking her directly. Wouldn't you say?
Me: Your clarification is acceptable.
Me: I have found that so many Christians put themselves at the top of the "discernment pyramid" (i.e., they have to check everything told to them). Sometimes as we submit to one another, we find ourselves from time to time in the position of obedience. "Because you said so, I will do it."
C.Y.: Rich-I'm not quite sure where you are going with "Christians put themselves at the top of the 'discernment pyramid'" would you mind clarifying that for me. I feel like its good stuff but I'm not getting ;)
Me: A lot of Christians are not truly under authority, in the sense that they seem to always submit the spiritual input they receive from other Christians to their own discernment. This is not to say that we should not be discerning, but our discernment is not perfect, nor is it always the final authority.
Here's what I mean. Pick out any person you really respect, someone you know to be a mature person of faith. For me that would be someone like Rob Mazza or your dad or Duncan Hill. If one of those men told me I should go do something, I would simply go do it. I would not say, "oh, I need to pray about that."
I'm not saying that this is always the way it should work. But sometimes it is, because God has appointed people to positions of authority, people whom we should not be reluctant to obey.
You can see that if everything that is said to you is subject to your discernment, then your discernment is at the top of the pyramid, and you then are really subject to no other human authority but you.
R.H.: See, Rich, I am not that way. If any of them would tell me to do it, I would question it first. *unless it is something I have been praying about already, pondering, considering, needing a final push in that direction, etc*. Someone tells me to do something, I have to wonder why. Depend ing on the something, of course.
And yes, when it comes to our own lives, we really have to be discerning, and at the top of our own pyramid that way, because we have our families to look after. We have to wonder what the motivation is behind them. If we have asked for guidance, that is completely different than someone simply telling us what to do. AND even then, we should not take what a human says as final authority, but give it to GOD, and see what the result is. if we rely on everyone else telling us what to do, then we can end up in a big muddle, and no faith either....
Me: So you are saying that there is no one in your life that you respect enough to obey and submit to? That only you hear God clearly enough, that your discernment is superior to anyone else? Forgive me for my directness, but if I am wrong, I'd like to know what you really meant.
R.H.: no, there isn't really anyone that Iwould trust to tell me what to do, and me to do without questioning, in ordinary circumstances. I listen to my husband, and regret it every time. but, I do consider what people have to say, and go from ...there. I used to do what anyone who I respected said. but that kept me from growing also. I don't take anyone's word for biblical interpretation as fact either. I ponder it, and study it out my self, and then go from there. everyone has such varied opinions, how can one possibly know what to do if you listen to everyon'e sinput on your lives? THere are a couple of people who I do listen to , and respect, and take to heart what they have to say, but I do not give it final authority. GOD is my final authority in what I do. We can't go about , living our lives, based on what others tell us. what a muddle we'd be in.
R.H.: now, in emergency situations, great. I may well listen, if I don't have a better solution. when someone says pray, I pray. someone suggests studying something out, I will do so. but for my life choices, no, there's no one who is the final authority above me but God.....
R.H.: if we become dependent on others to make our choices for us, to fight our battles for us, then we are weak in our faith, and weak in every other area as well. we have no armour, but hid behind those who do have it. What good is that to us?
C.Y.: Rich I believe I understand. R.H. - the thing about being your own discerner is that we as humans have holes in our thought process that's why we have cults. So yes we shouldn't always rely on other people but we shouldn't always rely just on ourselves. We do need people in our lives to speak truth when we ourselves our blind to it. Its a both and.
Me: C.Y., I'd like to apologize in advance for hijacking your post.
R.H., you are changing my definitions. I never recommended that this is always what we should do, or that we should never inquire of God ourselves, or that we should always obey others, or that we should become dependent on others to make our choices for us.
But I see that you confirmed that there is no one in spiritual authority over you, including your husband. That is troubling.
R.H.: Rich, let me tell you. My husband doesn't seem to believe in God. He is not interested in religion, grew up with a christian school background, thinks he knows evreything there is to know about the bible, doesn't read it, doesn't pray, is...n't interested in bible study, n o interest in going to church.
Everytime I have listened to my husband, we have gotten lost, taken longer to get places, things don't get done, etc.
Now, if you would like to live as I live, then you can judge after the fact.
R.H.: C.Y., cults: this is exactly why I do not have an "authority" over me telling me what to do. That's why I left BI, because he was trying to tell me what to do in specific areas of my life that are not his to deal with, and it was his way or the high way, and everyone had to believe what HE had to say, regardless of whether we felt it was right or not.
A spiritual leader is not one who tells you how it is. He tells you how he is led to believe it, and it is up to you to soak it up, and search it out for yourself. I am not in a position where I am leading others except for my family. I am not a cult, and I am not ina position of power. I knwo all about cults, and know the problems of no authority int hat way. That is why there are cults, because there are people controlling the lives of others. Because people take that person to be authority.
Me: Again, I did not use words like "listen to everyone."
I also made no commentary on what your husband is like, or what kind of relationship you have with him. Nor did I make any judgments about your life or what kind of person you are.
Perhaps you might confine your remarks to the topic at hand.
Me: "Control" and "authority" are not synonymous.
R.H.: rich, i merely spoke to the fact that you find it troubling that my husband is not an authority over me.
Me: Actually, once again you are changing what I said. I said I found it troubling that there is no one in spiritual authority over you, including your husband.
R.H.: You are taking out the "listen to everyone " out of context. there are others whose spirital walk I respect, and should they speak truth to me, you can bet I will take it to heart, and will likely know it is truth. good point, carly. (my pinky finger is bandaged at the moment, so not all things that should be capped may be...) i do not give anyone authority over me, because it has not ever been a good situation. I am merely speaking to the fact that there are people who will tell you, Rich, "jump" and you will obey without question, and I disagree with that. I have been taught an d trained to question motives, and to search things out. should that person be right, I will follow that direction. if I feel that person is wrong, no matter how much I respect that person, I will not go that way. Does that not make sense?
I take advice of many people. but it is not blindly accepted. THAT is my whole entire point that you seem to be missing.
R.H.: and you make sure to "include my hsuband". It is not my fault how my husband chooses to walk, but I cannot choose to follow those footsteps. I support my husband, but I hve to pray for his walk to be closer to Adonai, instead of farther away. I find it troubling that a husband must be an "authority". who is the authority over the husband?
R.H.: and this is a part of this discussion that ends here, becuase it's going to go a wrong direction, nd is of no benefit (I don't think???) to C.Y.. happy to discuss with you privately if you wish, Rich, or on my own wall. No, there is no human authority directl over my life, beyond our government, etc. NO spiritual authority, because I have not found one with whom I can entrust any portion of my life. I still feel that you are judging me because I hve no spiritual authority to whom i would completely submit to, who can tell me to do something, and I do it. I call that discern ment. I am sure I can find in many places in the bible to support my philosophy in this case. There are people in my life whose advice I will take should I ask of it, and NO one who I will blindly follow, just because they say to do something.
R.H.: I completely agree with C.Y. about being the one responsible for her life and her actions, and not calling up on others to take responsibility for her and her walk, and her faith. That is not to say that she's excluding everyone, but she's carrying her own staff, and taking her own steps, and facing her own obstacles. She may call on others when necessary, and that's very important too.
Me: Since I did not make a case for obeying without question, it appears we are in agreement.
"Authority" and "obedience" are not the same. The fact that your husband fails to be the man God has called him to be is unfortunate. Your godly ministry to your husband is explained by 1 Cor 7:14.
No comments:
Post a Comment