Obamacare simplified.
YUP...This about covers it nicely! If you agree LIKE this and SHARE this with your friends!
B.R.: Yes, you're correct, that logic is dumb.
R.W.: That is what was just declared constitutional.
B.R.: you're intentionally eschewing the importance of this system. Gum is a ridiculous thing to compare to health care.
K.B.: Reductio ad absurdum. It works with people who DIDN'T study debate in Junior High School.
Poor argument. Entertaining reading.
Me: How about this: We have a huge unsold inventory of single family homes. This clearly has a substantial potential impact on the country's well-being. Why not force renters to purchase a home or pay a penalty (um, tax)?
R.W.: Your point is a red herring Ben. It doesn't matter how important it is. The no gum tax is legal. According to 5 idiots on the the court you can be taxed on a non-action. It is only up to the whim of the majority to determine what they f...eel is important. When the right wing gets in power, they may decide that you have the right not to attend church. But if you don't participate you will be taxed. Want to buy a prius? Fine but you have to pay the NOT BUYING AMERICAN tax. Don't have solar panels? That is your right. Just pay the Raping of Mother Earth tax.
R.W.: K.B., maybe I didn't finish Junior High so I'm not as learned as you, but if you cant see the correlation, maybe its not my intelligence that should be called into question. It's not that hard. Don't purchase a commercial product from a private company and pay a tax. It doesn't matter what the product is!
B.R.: 90% of Americans are going to NEED a certain industry in the next 5 years, and it's not gum or single family homes or church or a prius or solar panels. My costs for those innocuously compared items don't skyrocket when the rest of America...ns decide to stay opted out. You're taking an enormously important and complex program and boiling it down to one personal value that you disagree with. Next time a Republican wins the White House and he or she starts to change things in big ways, I'm going to try and understand the whole story, not just the elements that go against my personal convictions.
K.B.: Come, come, R.W ... you didn't publish that cartoon to make a compelling legal point. You posted that cartoon because it was funny. And it is!! It made ME laugh!
And I see the correlation. Of course I do. That's why the cartoon is fu...nny. But it is Reductio ad absurdum. It is entertainment. It is not a compelling legal argument. If it were, cartoons and bumper stickers would be submitted to the Supreme Court instead of thousands and thousands of pages of briefs.
B.R.: I like your point, Kevin - liberals are equally guilty of promoting these kinds of things, maybe even more so since they're reliably funnier.
K.B.: Oh, HELL YES!! Liberals are just as guilty of it as anyone else. We LOVE to boil things down to absurdities in order to make a point. Without it, we never would have invented lapel buttons and bumper stickers.
I love a good laugh, from ...either side. Just don't take those little cartoons, bumper stickers and one-liners too seriously. The day they replace constructive argument; the day they do your talking for you, then intelligent human discourse is in big, big trouble.
Me: Liberals are only funny unintentionally.
B.R.: Rich - um. what? no.
K.B.: "When you run out of intelligent argument, switch to name-calling."
R.W.: The cartoon does not address healthcare. That is irrelevant. It doesn't MATTER what the product or service is. Why is that so difficult? Sometimes things ate really very simple. Can. You be taxed for NOT conforming? The answer is yes. That means that dispite the colonialists in Boston objection to high taxes on tea, how would they have felt if England had impossed a penalty for NOT BUYING tea.
B.R.: Is that how you feel about all taxes? Are there any taxes that you feel are understandable despite the compromise they represent?
Me: Joy Behar. Sheila Jackson-Lee. Joe Biden. Al Sharpton. Need I say more?
K.B.: You lost me. These people are examples of ...?
R.W.: Of course not, that is a ridiculous statement. Activity can be taxed. But I don't believe that the government should try to control our behavior with taxes. I am not in favor of sin taxes even though I rarely have to pay them. And I certainly don't support a tax on a Non-activity. Why so quick to give up your freedom?
B.R.: Rich - no, you generally needn't say more. ;-)
B.R.: I'm quick to make a compromise in support of getting health care to millions of uninsured Americans. I'd be as pissed as you are, if it was actually gum or priuses or things Americans don't actually need.
Me: And just like a typical liberal, turns personally insulting.
Me: These people are liberals who are unintentionally funny.
Me: "Need" is a nebulous concept. Who determines what you "Need?" Government?
B.R.: C'mon I was kidding...it was just too easy. There are plenty of liberals who are unintentionally funny, just like there are conservatives (see: Mitch McConnell's voice, John Boehner's name and tan, Sarah Palin's brain). But ya can't actually say that liberals aren't funny intentionally. Many of the great political humorists and satirists in American history have been liberal.
K.B.: Gentlemen, this has been endlessly entertaining, but I need to get back to work.
We're the only industrialized country that doesn't have universal health care. May I respectfully suggest we take a whack at it and see how it goes?
K.B.: If it turns into a hideously expensive debacle that causes more problems than it solves (Hello-o-o 18th Amendment!), then I will be leading the charge for its repeal. But give it a chance first.
Me: Before obamacare, 46 cents of every healthcare dollar was spent by government. As that number has increased over the past 30 years, healthcare has gotten worse. I submit that we have tried it and it has failed.
Me: "Humor" is a personal taste. Like you insulting me. You thought it was funny, and I didn't. now I know you were jesting, so I retract my statement.
I love a good laugh, from ...either side. Just don't take those little cartoons, bumper stickers and one-liners too seriously. The day they replace constructive argument; the day they do your talking for you, then intelligent human discourse is in big, big trouble.
Me: Liberals are only funny unintentionally.
B.R.: Rich - um. what? no.
K.B.: "When you run out of intelligent argument, switch to name-calling."
R.W.: The cartoon does not address healthcare. That is irrelevant. It doesn't MATTER what the product or service is. Why is that so difficult? Sometimes things ate really very simple. Can. You be taxed for NOT conforming? The answer is yes. That means that dispite the colonialists in Boston objection to high taxes on tea, how would they have felt if England had impossed a penalty for NOT BUYING tea.
B.R.: Is that how you feel about all taxes? Are there any taxes that you feel are understandable despite the compromise they represent?
Me: Joy Behar. Sheila Jackson-Lee. Joe Biden. Al Sharpton. Need I say more?
K.B.: You lost me. These people are examples of ...?
R.W.: Of course not, that is a ridiculous statement. Activity can be taxed. But I don't believe that the government should try to control our behavior with taxes. I am not in favor of sin taxes even though I rarely have to pay them. And I certainly don't support a tax on a Non-activity. Why so quick to give up your freedom?
B.R.: Rich - no, you generally needn't say more. ;-)
B.R.: I'm quick to make a compromise in support of getting health care to millions of uninsured Americans. I'd be as pissed as you are, if it was actually gum or priuses or things Americans don't actually need.
Me: And just like a typical liberal, turns personally insulting.
Me: These people are liberals who are unintentionally funny.
Me: "Need" is a nebulous concept. Who determines what you "Need?" Government?
B.R.: C'mon I was kidding...it was just too easy. There are plenty of liberals who are unintentionally funny, just like there are conservatives (see: Mitch McConnell's voice, John Boehner's name and tan, Sarah Palin's brain). But ya can't actually say that liberals aren't funny intentionally. Many of the great political humorists and satirists in American history have been liberal.
K.B.: Gentlemen, this has been endlessly entertaining, but I need to get back to work.
We're the only industrialized country that doesn't have universal health care. May I respectfully suggest we take a whack at it and see how it goes?
K.B.: If it turns into a hideously expensive debacle that causes more problems than it solves (Hello-o-o 18th Amendment!), then I will be leading the charge for its repeal. But give it a chance first.
Me: Before obamacare, 46 cents of every healthcare dollar was spent by government. As that number has increased over the past 30 years, healthcare has gotten worse. I submit that we have tried it and it has failed.
Me: "Humor" is a personal taste. Like you insulting me. You thought it was funny, and I didn't. now I know you were jesting, so I retract my statement.
"Great humorists?" I don't think so. See, I don't think liberals are funny at all when they are making their humor from the liberal perspective. Mostly because their humor about conservatives rely on caricatures and straw men.
B.R.: You should read more Mark Twain.
B.R.: You should read more Mark Twain.
Me: Took a look at a bunch of his quotes. Hardly liberal humor: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain.html
Me: Waiting for an answer. Who determines what you "Need?" Government?
B.R.: Keep waiting, I don't have an answer. The vast majority of present day Americans will rely on health care during their lifetime to stay healthy and alive.
B.R.: It's not temporary safety, it's permanent safety, and it's not for me, it's for my fellow Americans who want it very very badly.
R.W.: Have you seen the polls? Most people do not want it. In fact it had NEVER been above 50%
B.R.: Yup. It's a bummer but I have my theories on why it's unpopular. I agree with K.B., if five years goes by and it's a total fail and everyone hates it, i'll work to repeal it and put in a single payer system.
Me: Waiting for an answer. Who determines what you "Need?" Government?
B.R.: Keep waiting, I don't have an answer. The vast majority of present day Americans will rely on health care during their lifetime to stay healthy and alive.
B.R.: It's not temporary safety, it's permanent safety, and it's not for me, it's for my fellow Americans who want it very very badly.
R.W.: Have you seen the polls? Most people do not want it. In fact it had NEVER been above 50%
B.R.: Yup. It's a bummer but I have my theories on why it's unpopular. I agree with K.B., if five years goes by and it's a total fail and everyone hates it, i'll work to repeal it and put in a single payer system.
Me: When has a govt program ever been repealed, either due its failure, or because it achieved its objectives?
Me: The vast majority of Americans rely on all sorts of things. They also make choices and prioritize according to their preferences. On what basis does need become a priority of government? And why are people required to cede to government the decision on what they need?
The case you are making is dangerous. A government with that much power to do "good" also has enough power to do all sorts of evil. Tell me what remedy the people have to restrain a government that takes care of needs as it determines for you what you need?
Me: The vast majority of Americans rely on all sorts of things. They also make choices and prioritize according to their preferences. On what basis does need become a priority of government? And why are people required to cede to government the decision on what they need?
The case you are making is dangerous. A government with that much power to do "good" also has enough power to do all sorts of evil. Tell me what remedy the people have to restrain a government that takes care of needs as it determines for you what you need?
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