Me: Who does God hate?
J.S.: Exactly the point..God hates no one. Thats why I am created in His image and He is not created in mine. Which let me tell you is a pretty good thing...LOL
Me: What do you think of Psalms 5:5, Psalms 11:5, Prov 6:16-19, Hosea 9:15, and Mal 1:2-3?
Ps. 11:5 The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.
Pr. 6:16-19 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
Ho. 9:15 “Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious.
Mal. 1:3 Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.
J.S.: God hates evil and hates many things that many people possess (including myself, I have things inside that God hates)...but I don't think God hates people. Do you think God hates people Rich?
Me: What do the Scriptures say? What's your take on them?
E.H.: I don't think the point is if God loves or hates people I think the point that needs to be focused on is we all could love more than we do. We could all be more Christ like. And god calls us to love unconditionally. Pointless to get hung up on the details, Beth moore is simply trying to get everyone to take a long hard look in the mirror and start loving as a first reaction instead of a earned feeling for others.
Me: Quite right, E.H. Wise words. However, I do want the Scriptures to be our understanding when it comes to talking about God, not what Beth Moore or anyone else says about Him.
B.S.: Romans 5:8 ESV "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
John 3:16 ESV "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
B.S.: God loves everyone fortunately for me He chose not to leave me in my sin condition that He does hate, but the fact that He still came for me in spite of my condition breaks my heart for Him everyday!
Me: Are we engaging in a dispute? I don't want that. But again, what do you think of Psalms 5:5, Psalms 11:5, Prov 6:16-19, Hosea 9:15, and Mal 1:2-3?
B.S.: I feel those verses refer to a sin condition not individual souls. I'm curious, what is your take? Otherwise why did Jesus come?
Me: Just when I think I understand God...
Me: But it is also clear that God is referring to certain specific people that He hates. Esau, for example. He hated those in Gilgal because of their wickedness. His soul hates those who love violence. Wow.
Me: I must always be in a position to challenge my assumptions about things. It is the Holy Spirit who brings understanding.
Does God hate? Clearly he does. Does hate mean what we think it does? Probably not. Does God hate only sin? In a sense, yes. Sin rises a stench before God, whereas worship is a pleasing thing. One might say that sin is the opposite of worship. Sorta.
Me: But what is this hate? Is it like we think of hate? I don't think so. But on the other hand, what would the response be of a holy God when presented with sin? The Father turned away from the Son when He was hanging on the cross. That's something else that I don't understand.
B.S.: In the Hebrew as well as the Greek that word only means loved less.
Me: Looking up Strong's, it's the same word (8804, to hate, be hateful) used in all cases, as is Gen.37:4, for example, referring to specific hate. The original reference to Esau, which is Gen 27:41 (8799, to hate, oppose oneself to, bear a grudge, retain animosity against, cherish animosity against) is a different word.
In Romans 9:13, the verse about Esau is quoted (3404, to hate, pursue with hatred, detest).
Me: I find it interesting that Paul seems to be addressing what we are talking about here. He continues, "What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” And, presumably, He will hate whom He hates. He hates because of sin. He is grieved by hard hearts. He is merciful and comes to judge. I think our problem is that we try to make things into a binary equation (i.e., if God loves, how can He hate), but the Hebrew mind does not work that way. Western thought is binary, and God isn't.
Me: If Hate means Love Less, I'd like to know your source. I am enjoying the conversation, by the way.
B.S.: 3404 miséō – properly, to detest (on a comparative basis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another
B.S.: I am sorry I didn't think this was going to get so long winded, I think if you look at the original quote it never says God doesn't hate people. All she was trying to say was that people have a tendency to assume God views people they way we view them. I think it would be more important for us to try and figure out how we can practically reach the lost rather than try and figure out if God just hates them or not. 2 Timothy 2:16 I think nails where this conversation is heading as much fun as it has been.
Me: This is leading to godless chatter, wandering away from the truth? Really? B.S., that's a terrible thing to say.
B.S.: I am sorry I didn't think this was going to get so long winded, I think if you look at the original quote it never says God doesn't hate people. All she was trying to say was that people have a tendency to assume God views people they way we view them. I think it would be more important for us to try and figure out how we can practically reach the lost rather than try and figure out if God just hates them or not. 2 Timothy 2:16 I think nails where this conversation is heading as much fun as it has been.
Me: This is leading to godless chatter, wandering away from the truth? Really? B.S., that's a terrible thing to say.
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