R.W. posted this: Fat people will soon be illegal!
newsbusters.org
"Touting new recommendations from an Institute of Medicine
panel on obesity on Tuesday's NBC Nightly News, science correspondent Robert
Bazell proclaimed to viewers: "...a sea change in how we perceive obesity. No
longer a question of individual responsibility, but
a need to change what's called an... "
K.C.: . . . so whatever happened to that underground railroad?
B.R.: wah wah wah
R.W.: it's still there but now makes regular stops at the DQ
R.W.: You don't have to worry B.R., but the rest of us .......
B.R.: how dare the government give underperforming parents a hand, cry liberty my god!
Me: I'm so glad we have the government to tell us who is underperforming as parents.
B.R.: I can tell you myself: any parent whose child is obese for no medical reason is underperforming. It's not rocket science, it's called caring about the health of your kids.
Me: And that makes it a matter for the federal government.
R.W.: B.R. , when you have a child, I will send over the government inspectors to make sure you are conforming to the guidlines established by an all knowing government. The same government that gave the indians such fair treatment, that allowed s...lavery for centuries, that prohibited women the vote. Those same people will now teach us how to raise our children. Maybe it is best if we just turned over our offspring the way the Chinese do.
B.R.: Man, isn't it easier to jump to inane exaggerations than to try and solve a national epidemic?
Me: National epidemic? Now that's hyperbole itself. Help us, O great government!
R.W.: Do you want ANY decisions to be made by yourself? Or do you look to big brother to solve ALL your problems.
B.R.: They're not coming into Americans' homes, they're in the public schools, where kids learn many things that their overworked, underpaid parents don't have the time or attention to. School is good. Health is good. Exercise is good. Everything else is bitching.
B.R.: I'll take the goverment's help and thank them. I was a welfare baby.
Me: We don't need no education; we don't need no thought control; teachers, leave those kids alone.
B.R.: Also, my kids will be in very good shape, because I care enough to make sure it happens.
Me: Stupid parents. Who needs them?
R.W.: So YOU don't need the government to tell you how to reaise YOUR kids but your neighbors DO?
R.W.: If I give my kids ice cream should I be punished?
B.R.: I do need the government actually, to help me and my future kids stay in good health, good economic standing, and good awareness of the world around me. Look, if you're going to blindly stick to the moral that "government can't tell me how ...to live my life", you're going to miss out on a lot of really helpful and vital things. R.W., your kids are all beautiful and in good shape, at least last time I saw a family photo. But some parents let their kids get obese. And that's a form of abuse. And that's where the government can help, by making sure that public schools are a place where kids (both abused and not) can get what they NEED. Look at that word: NEED. Kids need good food and exercise. NEEEEEEEED. If they're not getting it at home, they get obese. It doesn't matter if the parents are intentionally letting them get obese, or if the parents are just pieces of crap who don't know how to care for a helpless little person. KIDS NEED GOOD FOOD AND EXERCISE.
Me: Ergo, we neeeeeeeed government because people neeeeeeed things. Yup.
R.W.: Maybe there should be a parenting test! You get a license to breed if you qualify. Obese parents will certainly raise obese children so they are out. And school will have to be 16 hours long, because you just KNOW when those kids get hom...e, they are going to play video games. The government will have to limit television broadcast to two hours a day then it can only be NEWS. We wil have money because BUS service just leads to laziness so that's out. In fact, I think there should only be 1 chair in a house and people can sit in shifts.
B.R.: Oh, ok. Willful ignorance. Nevermind then.
R.W.: B.R. , you are saying that WITHOUT government you can NOT be in good health, good economic standing or be aware of the world around you. How do you think people managed before the government got so large? How did you get THROUGH the depression and other hard times? We helped each other as NEIGHBORS not as a government institution. WE fended for ourselves a lot more. WE looked to our churches. You are a smart healthy man. Stand up for yourself and be a strong independent MAN instead of one that needs to be coddled like a child.
B.R.: You're taking a complex world and bottling it into your own limited experience, man.
R.W.: I didn't mean YOU got through the depression but the country.
Me: Yeah, R.W.. You are thinking too small. Come one, dude. Become a believer in all powerful government.
R.W.: B.R., our country is great because of the INDIVIDUALS in it. Not because we have to best bureaucracy.
B.R.: R.W., our country is great and millions of its citizens are obese and malnourished. If those people want to disregard their own health by denying the government's assistance, that's their right as Americans. But if they disregard their childrens' health, which is what they do when they let their kids get and remain obese, then they are abusing their children. The government won't come into their homes to keep them from abusing their children, because that's denying the INDIVIDUALS' right to privacy. But if those shitty parents are sending their abused obese children to public schools, then the government (local AND federal) has a say in a) what their lunch room serves, b) what exercise is included in the required Physical Education classes, and c) what values and lessons those kids are taught in their classrooms. What about this doesn't make sense to you?
Me: Obesity = abuse? Abuse = government intervention? Absolute nonsense.
B.R.: It's like you're intentionally trying to not get my point. Let's slow this down:
Yes, letting your kids get and remain obese is ABUSE. It's unhealthy for them. It's the same as letting them eat paint, or go years without brushing their tee...th, or letting play with dangerous tools. It's extremely neglectful and can do nothing except harm them.
No, abuse does not mean government intervention, that's what I covered when I said "The government won't come into their homes to keep them from abusing their children, because that's denying the INDIVIDUALS' right to privacy." The government is already in the public school, that's what public school is. The government is currently reacting to the medical news about how dangerous and widespread obesity is. Are they reacting in a way that takes away your rights? No. They're talking about using the public schools, which they're already involved in, to make school a healthier place for kids of all sizes.
Me: No, I think I understand your point. You're not seeming to get mine. This obesity thing is a created crisis being used as an excuse to capitalize on an opportunity to further insert external influences into places they've never been before. This is new ground.
The original point R.W. made is that generic obesity is portrayed as a public problem, one that government wants to address. You have taken a subset of that (fat children) and are justifying government intervention by labelling it abuse when you can't know that it is abuse.
If government can force someone, anyone, to lose weight, their rights are being violated. A child has the same rights as adults, including a right to be secure in their persons and property. Government does not have the authority to violate that.
R.W.: WHO determines OBESE. Who defines abuse. Who gets to say what Healthy is. There are already communities telling private business's what they can NOT serve, and what they MUST serve. The government does not have the right to go through your PERSONAL lunch to inspect it even if it IS in school. The government has ALREADY crossed the line. The government does not know the meaning of the word restraint, or common sense.
B.R.: So both of you are seeing this issue mainly in terms of the government's role in citizens' lives, and I'm seeing this issue in terms of how government can help kids be healthy when their parents have failed to do so. We're not going to get much further than this, but thank you both for reiterating your points, I think they're both valid and worthy of future discussion.
Me: A magnanimous reply. One last point. They government has never solved a social problem yet, so it seems unreasonable to assume that they could help kids be healthy.
R.W.: wait, Poverty is ended right? I mean we spent like 4 trillions dollars on it! Surely we solved THAT problem.
B.R.: Okay, let's say I drop the idea of schools helping kids exercise and eat healthier. How do we react to the new facts, that 2/3 of Americans, and that 1/3 of children, are overweight or obese? What do we do as free Americans?
Me: Interesting question. Or to rephrase, how do we get Americans to reject the cultural rot that glues them to their TVs and video games, the narcisissm of the me-first attitude, the idea that government will solve all my problems so I don't have to do a thing?
We have to accurately assess the cause before we can effect a cure. I would suggest that government has contributed to our descent down this road by making the lives of people insulated from the perils of life. If there is no risk there is no reward and there is no point in doing anything.
Public schools are all about self esteem now. Never have so many students felt so good about their own mediocrity.
a need to change what's called an... "
K.C.: . . . so whatever happened to that underground railroad?
B.R.: wah wah wah
R.W.: it's still there but now makes regular stops at the DQ
R.W.: You don't have to worry B.R., but the rest of us .......
B.R.: how dare the government give underperforming parents a hand, cry liberty my god!
Me: I'm so glad we have the government to tell us who is underperforming as parents.
B.R.: I can tell you myself: any parent whose child is obese for no medical reason is underperforming. It's not rocket science, it's called caring about the health of your kids.
Me: And that makes it a matter for the federal government.
R.W.: B.R. , when you have a child, I will send over the government inspectors to make sure you are conforming to the guidlines established by an all knowing government. The same government that gave the indians such fair treatment, that allowed s...lavery for centuries, that prohibited women the vote. Those same people will now teach us how to raise our children. Maybe it is best if we just turned over our offspring the way the Chinese do.
B.R.: Man, isn't it easier to jump to inane exaggerations than to try and solve a national epidemic?
Me: National epidemic? Now that's hyperbole itself. Help us, O great government!
R.W.: Do you want ANY decisions to be made by yourself? Or do you look to big brother to solve ALL your problems.
B.R.: They're not coming into Americans' homes, they're in the public schools, where kids learn many things that their overworked, underpaid parents don't have the time or attention to. School is good. Health is good. Exercise is good. Everything else is bitching.
B.R.: I'll take the goverment's help and thank them. I was a welfare baby.
Me: We don't need no education; we don't need no thought control; teachers, leave those kids alone.
B.R.: Also, my kids will be in very good shape, because I care enough to make sure it happens.
Me: Stupid parents. Who needs them?
R.W.: So YOU don't need the government to tell you how to reaise YOUR kids but your neighbors DO?
R.W.: If I give my kids ice cream should I be punished?
B.R.: I do need the government actually, to help me and my future kids stay in good health, good economic standing, and good awareness of the world around me. Look, if you're going to blindly stick to the moral that "government can't tell me how ...to live my life", you're going to miss out on a lot of really helpful and vital things. R.W., your kids are all beautiful and in good shape, at least last time I saw a family photo. But some parents let their kids get obese. And that's a form of abuse. And that's where the government can help, by making sure that public schools are a place where kids (both abused and not) can get what they NEED. Look at that word: NEED. Kids need good food and exercise. NEEEEEEEED. If they're not getting it at home, they get obese. It doesn't matter if the parents are intentionally letting them get obese, or if the parents are just pieces of crap who don't know how to care for a helpless little person. KIDS NEED GOOD FOOD AND EXERCISE.
Me: Ergo, we neeeeeeeed government because people neeeeeeed things. Yup.
R.W.: Maybe there should be a parenting test! You get a license to breed if you qualify. Obese parents will certainly raise obese children so they are out. And school will have to be 16 hours long, because you just KNOW when those kids get hom...e, they are going to play video games. The government will have to limit television broadcast to two hours a day then it can only be NEWS. We wil have money because BUS service just leads to laziness so that's out. In fact, I think there should only be 1 chair in a house and people can sit in shifts.
B.R.: Oh, ok. Willful ignorance. Nevermind then.
R.W.: B.R. , you are saying that WITHOUT government you can NOT be in good health, good economic standing or be aware of the world around you. How do you think people managed before the government got so large? How did you get THROUGH the depression and other hard times? We helped each other as NEIGHBORS not as a government institution. WE fended for ourselves a lot more. WE looked to our churches. You are a smart healthy man. Stand up for yourself and be a strong independent MAN instead of one that needs to be coddled like a child.
B.R.: You're taking a complex world and bottling it into your own limited experience, man.
R.W.: I didn't mean YOU got through the depression but the country.
Me: Yeah, R.W.. You are thinking too small. Come one, dude. Become a believer in all powerful government.
R.W.: B.R., our country is great because of the INDIVIDUALS in it. Not because we have to best bureaucracy.
B.R.: R.W., our country is great and millions of its citizens are obese and malnourished. If those people want to disregard their own health by denying the government's assistance, that's their right as Americans. But if they disregard their childrens' health, which is what they do when they let their kids get and remain obese, then they are abusing their children. The government won't come into their homes to keep them from abusing their children, because that's denying the INDIVIDUALS' right to privacy. But if those shitty parents are sending their abused obese children to public schools, then the government (local AND federal) has a say in a) what their lunch room serves, b) what exercise is included in the required Physical Education classes, and c) what values and lessons those kids are taught in their classrooms. What about this doesn't make sense to you?
Me: Obesity = abuse? Abuse = government intervention? Absolute nonsense.
B.R.: It's like you're intentionally trying to not get my point. Let's slow this down:
Yes, letting your kids get and remain obese is ABUSE. It's unhealthy for them. It's the same as letting them eat paint, or go years without brushing their tee...th, or letting play with dangerous tools. It's extremely neglectful and can do nothing except harm them.
No, abuse does not mean government intervention, that's what I covered when I said "The government won't come into their homes to keep them from abusing their children, because that's denying the INDIVIDUALS' right to privacy." The government is already in the public school, that's what public school is. The government is currently reacting to the medical news about how dangerous and widespread obesity is. Are they reacting in a way that takes away your rights? No. They're talking about using the public schools, which they're already involved in, to make school a healthier place for kids of all sizes.
Me: No, I think I understand your point. You're not seeming to get mine. This obesity thing is a created crisis being used as an excuse to capitalize on an opportunity to further insert external influences into places they've never been before. This is new ground.
The original point R.W. made is that generic obesity is portrayed as a public problem, one that government wants to address. You have taken a subset of that (fat children) and are justifying government intervention by labelling it abuse when you can't know that it is abuse.
If government can force someone, anyone, to lose weight, their rights are being violated. A child has the same rights as adults, including a right to be secure in their persons and property. Government does not have the authority to violate that.
R.W.: WHO determines OBESE. Who defines abuse. Who gets to say what Healthy is. There are already communities telling private business's what they can NOT serve, and what they MUST serve. The government does not have the right to go through your PERSONAL lunch to inspect it even if it IS in school. The government has ALREADY crossed the line. The government does not know the meaning of the word restraint, or common sense.
B.R.: So both of you are seeing this issue mainly in terms of the government's role in citizens' lives, and I'm seeing this issue in terms of how government can help kids be healthy when their parents have failed to do so. We're not going to get much further than this, but thank you both for reiterating your points, I think they're both valid and worthy of future discussion.
Me: A magnanimous reply. One last point. They government has never solved a social problem yet, so it seems unreasonable to assume that they could help kids be healthy.
R.W.: wait, Poverty is ended right? I mean we spent like 4 trillions dollars on it! Surely we solved THAT problem.
B.R.: Okay, let's say I drop the idea of schools helping kids exercise and eat healthier. How do we react to the new facts, that 2/3 of Americans, and that 1/3 of children, are overweight or obese? What do we do as free Americans?
Me: Interesting question. Or to rephrase, how do we get Americans to reject the cultural rot that glues them to their TVs and video games, the narcisissm of the me-first attitude, the idea that government will solve all my problems so I don't have to do a thing?
We have to accurately assess the cause before we can effect a cure. I would suggest that government has contributed to our descent down this road by making the lives of people insulated from the perils of life. If there is no risk there is no reward and there is no point in doing anything.
Public schools are all about self esteem now. Never have so many students felt so good about their own mediocrity.
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