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This is an assemblage of undocumented claims, ill-informed opinions, and scriptural misrepresentations. The author doesn't get a single thing biblically correct.
Now, we should note that we are not here to defend Rick Joyner or his writings. We have read The Final Quest and found it challenging, interesting, and at times, odd. We do not ascribe to it the status of Scripture, nor should we or anyone else.
Speaking of Scripture, the author writes almost 1500 words without quoting a single Scripture.
We must consider this Bad Bible Teaching.)
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What would you do if someone claimed to have had an extraordinary dream or trance where the last great spiritual battle of the end times was seen in great detail, and the strategies of the enemy against the church were revealed? (We would consider these claims and weigh them.)
(...)
There are many areas in this book where Joyner claims that the Lord spoke to him directly, whether as a physical person named Wisdom, or when Joyner claims that he was before the Lord at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Are we permitted to call that into question? (Yes.)
Listen to these in-depth podcast episodes regarding The Final Quest: An Introductory Look at The Fi – The Lovesick Scribe Podcast – Apple Podcasts
The Final Quest Part 1 – The Lovesick Scribe Podcast – Apple Podcasts
Examining The Final Quest- Par – The Lovesick Scribe Podcast – Apple Podcasts
What would you do if someone claimed to have had an extraordinary dream or trance where the last great spiritual battle of the end times was seen in great detail, and the strategies of the enemy against the church were revealed? (We would consider these claims and weigh them.)
How would you respond to someone who likened this alleged prophetic revelation to the American Civil War, where Christians would be divided against one another as Blues (spiritual) and Grays (intellectual), and those who opposed the next great move of God would be removed? (We would consider these claims and weigh them.)
Rick Joyner, the leader and founder of Morning Star Ministries, is well-known for his popular book, The Final Quest, which tells of a dream that he said took place in 1995 over a year’s time. This book became an installment in a trilogy later released by Joyner.
(...)
He has also stated his belief that “any prophetic revelation is not for the purpose of establishing doctrine. We have the Scripture for that.” Upon reading his book, the argument could be made that his prophetic revelation does indeed establish doctrine according to his beliefs about those who would oppose the next great move of God. (The author's counterclaim is a non sequitur. "Establishing doctrine" is not the same thing as having "beliefs about those who would opposed the next great move of God."
It seems quite clear that Joyner is making the standard charismatic claim that contemporary revelation does not equate to Scripture.)
Furthermore, prophecy found in Scripture does contribute to our fundamental doctrinal beliefs concerning Jesus Christ, such as the virgin birth, Jesus’s crucifixion for our sins, His burial, and His resurrection from the dead. (Yes, of course. This is the purpose of Scripture.
This is not the topic, however. Joyner's book is not "found in Scripture.")
Additionally, the contents of Revelation have led to several eschatological viewpoints that are debated and discussed. ("Eschatological viewpoints." And that is exactly what we have here. A viewpoint is not a doctrine.)
To state that prophecy is not for establishing doctrine actually contradicts Scripture. (Which Scripture? Where?)
There are many areas in this book where Joyner claims that the Lord spoke to him directly, whether as a physical person named Wisdom, or when Joyner claims that he was before the Lord at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Are we permitted to call that into question? (Yes.)
Are we to assume that when Joyner claims that the Lord spoke to him that this is authoritative for all believers? (No.)
Or are we to put it on a shelf and reject it if it does not bear witness with us personally? (Perhaps.)
In the modern prophetic movement, many are encouraged in practicing prophecy and that fallible prophecy is Biblical and acceptable. Ultimately, you become your own barometer for truth, meaning that if the word does not bear witness with you, or if it does not confirm what God has already told you, then you do not have to listen to a prophecy claiming to be from God. (This is a false, though common cessationist claim. Contemporary prophecy is not subjective, untestable, or a matter of whim. The Bible itself tells us what to do with prophecy:
1Co. 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
The author certainly knows this. Or ought to.)
Little to any testing of claimed prophetic words transpires. (Oh, so she does know that prophecy is to be tested. But now she is claiming that prophecy isn't being tested. But how would she know what amount of prophecy is being tested? And why would testing matter if all contemporary prophecy is false?)
What then prevents someone from rejecting what Scripture has to say when leaders in this movement have now made concessions for God speaking authoritatively? (Every sort of person of every stripe has rejected what Scripture has to say, for various reasons. Does the author think that contemporary prophecy uniquely sets a person up to reject Scripture? Upon what basis does she make this astonishing claim?
Further, it is she who insists that all prophecy is "God speaking authoritatively." This standard, however, is not found in the Bible.)
What else can you expect when reading this book? Well, Rick Joyner tells of demons riding on Christians in the enemy’s army. He tells of vultures flying over these Christians and vomiting Condemnation on them, which these same people believe is from the Holy Spirit. He says that the demons riding on Christians urinate and defecate on them. He tells of arrows of Truth penetrating these Christians that are fired by him and other Christians on a mountaintop, only resulting in rage from these believers and demonic empowerment upon them. He tells of touching specific-colored stones in rooms designated with specific meanings, and how they made him feel as he envisioned events such as Gethsemane.
Though he mentions feelings of selfishness and a lack of Christ centeredness, he also describes angels bowing down to him in response to his mantle of authority and humility, and he reports conversations with those who are in heaven as he approaches the Judgment Seat of Christ. Among those individuals was a Reformer’s wife, and Joyner states that he had a strong desire to worship this woman due to her purity. He speaks of one man who asks for Rick’s forgiveness in opposing his ministry and others, stating that his pursuit of exposing them was bringing him down the road of perdition. He also alleges a conversation with Apostle Paul, where Paul tells Joyner that what he has written should be not used as the foundation, and Joyner and others are “now THEIR (the cloud of witnesses) hope.”
At one point in his alleged discussion with Wisdom, who is said to be Jesus Christ, Joyner is told, “To be entrusted with My Words is to be entrusted with the power by which the universe is held together…In all your endeavors, remember that the importance of a single Word from God to man is of more value than all of the treasures of earth. You must understand and teach My brethren to respect the value of My Word. As one who is called to carry My Words, you must also respect the value of your own words. Those who carry the truth must be true.” It would seem ("Seem?" Is the author now speculating?)
What else can you expect when reading this book? Well, Rick Joyner tells of demons riding on Christians in the enemy’s army. He tells of vultures flying over these Christians and vomiting Condemnation on them, which these same people believe is from the Holy Spirit. He says that the demons riding on Christians urinate and defecate on them. He tells of arrows of Truth penetrating these Christians that are fired by him and other Christians on a mountaintop, only resulting in rage from these believers and demonic empowerment upon them. He tells of touching specific-colored stones in rooms designated with specific meanings, and how they made him feel as he envisioned events such as Gethsemane.
Though he mentions feelings of selfishness and a lack of Christ centeredness, he also describes angels bowing down to him in response to his mantle of authority and humility, and he reports conversations with those who are in heaven as he approaches the Judgment Seat of Christ. Among those individuals was a Reformer’s wife, and Joyner states that he had a strong desire to worship this woman due to her purity. He speaks of one man who asks for Rick’s forgiveness in opposing his ministry and others, stating that his pursuit of exposing them was bringing him down the road of perdition. He also alleges a conversation with Apostle Paul, where Paul tells Joyner that what he has written should be not used as the foundation, and Joyner and others are “now THEIR (the cloud of witnesses) hope.”
At one point in his alleged discussion with Wisdom, who is said to be Jesus Christ, Joyner is told, “To be entrusted with My Words is to be entrusted with the power by which the universe is held together…In all your endeavors, remember that the importance of a single Word from God to man is of more value than all of the treasures of earth. You must understand and teach My brethren to respect the value of My Word. As one who is called to carry My Words, you must also respect the value of your own words. Those who carry the truth must be true.” It would seem ("Seem?" Is the author now speculating?)
that Joyner’s writing equates the written Word of God with modern prophetic utterances, (Well, no. He doesn't. Remember that the author made a big stink out of Joyner's statement, "any prophetic revelation is not for the purpose of establishing doctrine. We have the Scripture for that?" But now she claims the reverse.
We wish she would make up her mind.)
and this contradicts what is taught in the modern prophetic movement. It is my contention that Joyner does establish doctrine by his own writing in this book, (Ok, so name the doctrines Joyner has established. Go ahead, ma'am, we call your bluff. Make a list. Show us.)
and his claimed prophetic revelation is used to interpret Scripture rather than allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture. (Does the author understand that Scripture is written down prophecy? Further, does the author understand that Neither Scripture nor prophecy interpret Scripture, rather, people interpret Scripture? And lastly, does the author understand that interpreting Scripture is not the same thing as establishing doctrine?)
It is also concerning that Rick Joyner compares what takes place in this dream/trance to the American Civil War. (Illustrations and comparisons are not meant to be exactly the same in every detail.)
It is also concerning that Rick Joyner compares what takes place in this dream/trance to the American Civil War. (Illustrations and comparisons are not meant to be exactly the same in every detail.)
There is a not-so-subtle undertone in this book that those who oppose the coming move of God are demonically driven and are essentially enemies to those who would embrace what is said to be from the Lord. (Well, of course. If there is a coming move of God, then certainly those who would oppose it are enemies of God.)
As an admitted history lover, Joyner equates much in the Civil War to this claimed prophetic revelation, stating in a prophetic bulletin written in 1996 that spiritual leaders like Abraham Lincoln will be raised up by the Lord who are “willing to fight a civil war so that the union may be preserved.” He even goes so far as to divide people into the Blue and the Gray, stating that “In dreams and visions blue often represents heavenly mindedness (i.e., the sky is blue), and gray speaks of those who live by the power of their own minds (i.e., the brain is often called “gray matter”). This will be a conflict between those who may be genuine Christians, but who live mostly according to their natural minds and human wisdom, and those who follow the Holy Spirit.”
From necromancy, (??? What?)
From necromancy, (??? What?)
which is forbidden in Scripture (Leviticus 19:26, 20:27, Deuteronomy 18:10-11), to contradictions, (Examples?)
self-exaltation, (Examples?)
disturbing imagery, (That's a problem?)
additions to the original prophetic revelation, (As mentioned, the author doesn't believe in contemporary prophecy. She believes there is no more, which is the reason for this objection.)
and claiming that God spoke directly to Rick Joyner, numerous concerns are present, and it should lead us to test this book against the more sure Word of prophecy, which is Scripture. (When is the author going to do this?
And by the way, the author alludes to, but does not quote, another Scripture:
2Pe. 1:19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
The author fails to interpret this correctly. Peter tells us the prophecies about Jesus were made more certain to him because he eye witnessed the transfiguration. This verse is not about the Bible at all.)
We can be encouraged to rest in the sufficiency of Scripture and to know that God has told us all that we need for life and Godliness. (Now the author lies to us. Let's quote her unreferenced Scripture:
2Pe. 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness...
The reader can clearly see that Scripture is not the topic here, but rather, His divine power. The author deliberately misrepresents a Scripture, which makes her a false teacher.)
He has revealed all that we need to know for the last days, and this book is not only unnecessary, but it undermines the sufficiency of Scripture while bringing division in the process. In all actuality, those who would question his book are those who are fighting on the side of the enemy. Division will certainly come, and while false teaching divides needlessly, the truth of the written Word of God divides precisely. (A paragraph of undocumented assertions, unfocused accusations, and general chaos. This woman should not be trusted as a Bible teacher.)
Listen to these in-depth podcast episodes regarding The Final Quest: An Introductory Look at The Fi – The Lovesick Scribe Podcast – Apple Podcasts
The Final Quest Part 1 – The Lovesick Scribe Podcast – Apple Podcasts
Examining The Final Quest- Par – The Lovesick Scribe Podcast – Apple Podcasts
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