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Finally we have someone who will be discussing the cessationist view of Joel's prophecy, the pouring out of the Spirit on all people. Astonishingly, the author will completely avoid the plain statements of the passage. Basically, the author will say, "well, it can't mean what it says, so it must mean something else."
In addition, the author will never quote any Bible verse other than the one verse from Joel, so her article will generally be presented without the Bible. And, she never answers the question asked in the title.
Lastly, the author will not quote Peter's restatement of the prophecy:
Ac. 2:16-21 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 “In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." [Joel 2:28-32]
We must deem this Bad Bible Teaching.
“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.” Joel 2:28
As I recently prepared for a podcast Q&A, I had a friend and sister in Christ pose this question of personal interest. Perhaps you have had the same question.
“Why are so many visions accepted in New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) churches without any apparent Scriptural verification? In Joel 2:28, God promised, “I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your old men will dream dreams, and your young men will see visions.” That Scripture has always and still made me question when and how this will come about.”
It was such a good question that I wanted to discuss it in a separate blog post. (The reason it is a question is because cessationists do their level best to avoid explaining the verse, or they dance around it in order not to violate their doctrine.)
For those who have been affiliated with the teachings and practices within this movement, we know that dreams and visions are a major focus in it. Leaders teach and write books on the subject, providing dream interpretation books and claiming revelatory insight as to how to know what God is saying through dreams. Some of these leaders will teach that Satan will attempt to interfere with your dreams, and when he does this, he will hinder your ability to hear God and to obey His word. Dreams, internal visions, and open visions are sought after in this movement, viewed as significant characteristics of modern-day prophets. Truth be told, these visions and dreams are held in high esteem and are even viewed in an authoritative fashion. (We are not interested in the practices of contemporary Christians. None of this comes to bear on what the Bible says, so the author wasted a paragraph.)
A few years ago, I did a brief study on dreams and visions in light of Scripture, and I shared some thoughts on the subject. When looking at Joel 2:28, I noted these observations, “When reflecting on this particular verse in Acts, it is interesting to note that there is little mention of the occurrence of dreams in the early church coinciding with this verse. Other than the account in Acts 16:9 of Paul’s night vision of the Macedonian man urging Paul to come and help them, there are no other New Testament passages (in Acts) mentioning the occurrence of dreams. Therefore, it would appear that this reference to visions and dreams found in Acts 2:17 and Joel 2:28 is referencing a time to come coinciding with the Day of the Lord.” ("It would appear?" This is the best the author can do?
A few years ago, I did a brief study on dreams and visions in light of Scripture, and I shared some thoughts on the subject. When looking at Joel 2:28, I noted these observations, “When reflecting on this particular verse in Acts, it is interesting to note that there is little mention of the occurrence of dreams in the early church coinciding with this verse. Other than the account in Acts 16:9 of Paul’s night vision of the Macedonian man urging Paul to come and help them, there are no other New Testament passages (in Acts) mentioning the occurrence of dreams. Therefore, it would appear that this reference to visions and dreams found in Acts 2:17 and Joel 2:28 is referencing a time to come coinciding with the Day of the Lord.” ("It would appear?" This is the best the author can do?
Peter prefaced the quote of Joel's prophecy by inserting the phrase, In the last days... He was explaining the unusual occurrences the crowd had just witnessed. The things that were happening were because the Holy Spirit was being poured out. In effect, Peter was announcing the commencement of the Last Days. Joel's prophecy was being fulfilled.
The Last Days is the period of time in which we live. We live in the days of the poured out Spirit, so the things Joel described should be happening today.
The Day of the Lord, however, is the last day of the Last Days, the Day the Lord returns and executes judgment. Joel mentioned this day of the Lord:
Ac. 2:19-20 I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
Putting it together, the Last Days will finally end with the Last Day, the Day of the Lord. It will be both a glorious and terrible day:
Is. 13:9 See, the day of the LORD is coming — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger — to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.
So, Joel told us about both the Last Days and the Day of the Lord. He could not be referring only to the Day of The Lord because on that day it's all over. There would be no reason for anyone to prophesy, dream dreams, or see visions on the day the Lord returns.
The author's assertion doesn't make sense.)
According to this commentary,
“The three modes whereby God revealed His will under the Old Testament (Nu 12:6), “prophecy, dreams, and visions,” are here made the symbol of the full manifestation of Himself to all His people, not only in miraculous gifts to some, but by His indwelling Spirit to all in the New Testament” (Jn 14:21, 23; 15:15).Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, vol. 1 (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 667.
What are we to make of claims to dreams and visions today? Could God speak to someone through a dream? God can do what He wills to do. At the same time, we must be careful to attribute such things to God by using descriptive passages of Scripture in a prescriptive and personally applicable way. (Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. That sounds prescriptive to us.)
When we look at Scripture, we find that the occurrences of dreams and visions was not as common as some would claim today, and this is not a normative thing in the life of a Christian. (In other words, the author counts the number of dreams and visions in the NT and if these are not mentioned often enough it is evidence that Joel must have meant something else. This is an Argument From Silence (or Near Silence). The author is determining her doctrine by what isn't said and what isn't written about.
But we don't know all of what happened in the early church, we only know what the Holy Spirit revealed to the various writers. Dreams and visions may have been commonplace. We don't know. We must not make conclusions based on what isn't written.
And by the way, the book is called Acts of the Apostles, so it only makes sense that it focuses on the Apostles as central characters while omitting what might have happened elsewhere.)
Though we know that God spoke to the Old Testament prophets and fathers of Israel in various ways, He has sufficiently revealed all that He purposed to reveal through His Son, Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:1,2). (Whaaat? That is not what the verses say! Let's quote:
He. 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The writer of Hebrews was not describing the ceasing of God speaking, he was describing the preeminence of the Son:
He. 1:4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
The superior position and power of the Son is what the writer of Hebrews focused on from the beginning through most of chapter three. His intent was to establish the high place of the Son because everything that comes after hinges on it.
Also, the word "spoke" in verse two is not in the past tense. In fact, the writer of Hebrews clearly tells us the Son still is speaking: He. 1:3 ...sustaining all things by his powerful word. His speaking keeps the universe going. Including the Church.)
We should also consider that God provided the interpretation or the direct meaning of a vision or dream. He did not operate in ambiguity or in the need for a dream dictionary in order to know what He may or may not have wanted to convey to an individual. He is also not at the mercy of Satan, nor is He dependent upon human beings tuning into the proper frequency in order to hear what He has to say. (More commentary on the practices of certain contemporary Christians, again irrelevant.)
There is a propensity in this particular movement to elevate the man or woman having such experiences. (Sigh. Still talking about contemporary Christians...)
Although dreams were given on occasion to particular individuals, the descriptions of those accounts do not equate to being prescriptive in our lives as believers in Christ. (She repeats her undocumented assertion.)
We are not instructed to seek such experiences in order to be a follower of Jesus Christ. (1Co. 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.)
The written Word of God is to be the final authority in our lives, and our lives are to be lived unto the glory of God. Even the dreams found in Scripture pointed back to the sovereignty and glory of God in every situation. It is Christ’s finished work on the cross that marks us as His people. He is to be our focus and the object of our faith. (No Christian would disagree with this paragraph.)
No amount of claimed supernatural experiences defines my fellowship or your fellowship with God. (Who claims that these things do this?)
Be encouraged by this truth.
Listen to this episode discussing the topic of dreams and visions in the NAR movement: The Lovesick Scribe Podcast: What Do We Do with Dreams and Visions? on Apple Podcasts
Listen to this episode discussing the topic of dreams and visions in the NAR movement: The Lovesick Scribe Podcast: What Do We Do with Dreams and Visions? on Apple Podcasts
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