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Both Protestia and Disntr hyperventilate in concert, this time about Todd White. Now, Mr. White may indeed be problematic. Maybe even a heretic. Or maybe he's just a guy who has a differing view on certain doctrines. However, we don't intend to defend Mr. White, we are here to evaluate the claims of his critics. And the issue here is a matter of reviewing and interpreting Scripture, a process neither Protestia nor Disntr undertook.
Mr. White claimed the disciples weren't saved when they were casting out devils and praying for the sick. This is claim we can examine. Disntr, at least, posted this video, where the host says the disciples were saved because Jesus breathed on them to receive the Holy Spirit:
Jn. 20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit."
Was this really when the disciples were saved, as the video claims? Thomas wasn't there at the time, so when was he saved? And did they actually receive the Holy Spirit at that moment? The text doesn't say, only that Jesus told them to receive the Holy Spirit.
But more importantly, this moment when Jesus breathed on them was after the crucifixion, which of course was well after the supernatural activities of the disciples.
Another issue is, performing the miracles of God does not indicate salvation:
Mt. 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" 23 Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"
And of course there was the unidentified miracle-working man in Mark 9:38. Was he saved?
There is, therefore, enough wiggle room to accept Todd White's statements as at least falling into the realm of possibility and considered evaluation.
Let's pursue this farther. We would want to separate out the issue of salvation as it applies to the First Covenant (He. 9:1). We recognize that the administration of grace during OT times worked differently, as it is described in Romans chapter 4 regarding Abraham's faith.
So any sort of salvation prior to the New Covenant (He. 9:15) must have occurred under special circumstances. However, it is not within the scope of our remarks to explore how salvation might have worked in the OT.
Jesus' ministry was an even more unique period of time. Jesus was present on earth, ministering in the full grace and power of the Father. We would suggest that is is not the same situation as the OT times or the New Covenant.
Many put their faith in Him (Jn. 8:30) during His ministry, but we don't know how that plays out. He forgave the sins of some, but others committed sin that will not be forgiven. So, when people are recorded as believing Jesus as He spoke to the crowds or performed miracles, is that their moment of their saving faith, or is it simply a matter of believing His words at the moment?
The time we can be most certain of how to be saved is after Pentecost (Ac. 2:17). Salvation in the New Covenant is contingent on the poured out Holy Spirit in these Last Days:
Ro. 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
According to Reformed theologians, the ordo salutis (order of salvation) is
1) election/predestination (in Christ)2) Atonement3) gospel call4) inward call5) regeneration9) glorification (Rom 8:29-30).
Regeneration would seem to be a pivotal moment:
The SOURCE of regeneration is Christ (1 Pet 1:3; Eph 1:3, 2:4, 4:24; 2 Cor 5:17) The AGENT of regeneration is the Holy Spirit (Jn. 3:3-8; Titus 3:5) The INSTRUMENT of regeneration is the Word of God (Jas. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23, 25) which precedes and causes faith (Jn 6:63-65, 1 jn 5:1, Eph. 2:5; Col. 2:13)
One is not a New Creation until regeneration occurs. You must be born again... And regeneration cannot occur until the Holy Spirit does so. And regeneration is required for conversion, which is the moment of faith.
John makes the direct point that the Holy Spirit had not been given:
Jn. 7:39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
The Holy Spirit would be given after Jesus was glorified.
Jesus told them it was a good thing He was going away, for the Holy Spirit would not be sent until He did leave:
Jn. 16:7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counsellor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
And most critically, John tells us they didn't actually believe until after Jesus was raised from the dead:
Jn. 2:22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
The resurrected Jesus told the disciples:
Ac. 1:4-5 ...“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
The Holy Spirit was not poured out until Pentecost:
Ac. 2:4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
It seems to us that a person cannot be saved without the regenerative act of the Holy Spirit. In our opinion, the disciples were likely not saved until the Holy Spirit was poured out and regenerated them.
Notice how we engaged an extended discussion, quoted Scripture, and then made our conclusions? At no time did we did accuse Protestia or Disntr of rank heresy. We simply evaluated the issue, looked at the Scriptures, and determined that it is not entirely clear when the disciples became saved. So we issued what we think is a considered, thoughtful opinion.
Protestia and Disntr would do well to do the same.
Todd White is a charlatan of the highest order, masquerading as a preacher and pastor. His supposed “healings” are nothing more than cheap parlor tricks, and his association with known false prophets and heretics should be a red flag to anyone who encounters him. But despite his many foolish statements and outright blasphemies, White is a master at sounding passionate and genuine, which makes him all the more dangerous. This is what makes him the worst kind of false teacher.
White’s understanding of spiritual matters is not just limited, it’s downright infantile. His teachings are often so outlandish and heretical that no one with even a basic understanding of Christianity should take him seriously. In recent weeks, he has been caught misrepresenting the doctrine of imputation to such a blasphemous degree that it’s sickening and claiming that Jesus literally became the embodiment of sins like “bestiality” on the cross.
And in a sermon given last year, White went so far as to claim that Jesus wants to climb into bed with individuals while they are watching porn and be their climax. Such utter foolishness and blasphemy should be a clear indication that White is operating outside of the realm of orthodox Christianity.
Now, in a recently surfaced video, demonstrating his extreme biblical ignorance, White declares that Jesus’s disciples were not saved or born again. In a message, he preached:
“When I prayed the devil ran away! Look at me”- The disciples prayed and the devils ran away and they weren’t even saved“
and then later:
You are greatly deceived because the disciples prayed for the sick and weren’t even born again.
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