J.W.: The point is not that they are rich. They are willing to take to tax hikes for the upper class. They support the fact that because they have more, they should give more. I've seen tons of signs of protesters even that say " I am the one percent and I stand with the 99" I don't think it's a big deal that they have the support of some wealthier individuals.
B.R.: Your son is right.
R.W.: Except that he's not. The protesters are not against people with money, they are after CERTAIN people with money. And these Liberals billionaires do NOT want their taxes raised. That is the big lie here. They want the INCOME tax raised ...but they don't pay INCOME tax they pay CAPITAL GAINS tax which is different. No billionaire I have seen has said we should raise Capital Gains rates. When Warren Buffet said his secretary paid more income tax than he did he was correct. Because his income doesn't come from a pay check, hers does! And the whole notion that because you have more, you should pay more is bullshit. Should you pay for a loaf of bread based on your income? We should all pay the SAME percentage. That alone would mean that someone making $200,000 pays 10 times as much as someone making $20,000. These protesters sit there in their Nike's and Levi's listening to their I-pods and talking on their Cell phones and those are brought to you by capitalism and corporations! If they want to place blame somewhere, put it on the government. These people who you don't think pay enough, are paying exactly what the government tells them they must. They are obeying the law as set forth by Washington. And if these Hypocrites think they should pay more, please show me ONE billionaire that has given more than the IRS said they owed. In my book, Millionaires and Billionaires are HEROES. They show that you can succeed in this country even if you start out with Nothing. They should be applauded not demonized just because they worked hard and made something of themselves and all these little punks can think to do is sit on their asses and complain that they don't have it easy. I have NO sympathy for the little whiners.
Me: They have more, and they do give more. They pay a higher proportion of their income now than they did during Carter. Marginal tax rates are different than actual tax paid, and the rich pay more than they ever have.
B.R.: But R.W., how do you really feel about it?
R.W.: I know. I was actually excited and pleased that Jeremy jumped in. I respect those with view points which are incorrect a lot more than those with no viewpoints at all. I just read somewhere that if the tax rates were raised the way those Occupiers and Democrats in office wanted, it would only raise like 16 billion dollars more. In government terms that would last us about 15 minutes. I'll have to try and find that so my numbers are more accurate. My friend R.S. that chimed in usually has those figures either in his head or at his finger tips. Maybe if we are real nice he'll post them for us. My friend B.R. here, didn't wait for someone to hand him a job after college. He started his own theatre company. I respect that. My son J.W. has chosen a field that will ALWAYS be in demand, Math Teacher. How many of these protesters got a degree in communications or Renaissance art history, and now figure corporations should fall over backwards to give them a job. Randy has his own business. Should he be forced to hire 3 or 4 more people even though he doesn't need them? Of course he would have to give them Full benefits and a retirement package. These kids need to learn how the world operates before they start criticizing. And the poor things don't even realize that the Rich people supporting them are doing it for their OWN self interests, whether they be financial or political or both.
B.R.: Thanks for the respect. I started a theater company in 2006. But I couldn't start one now, because of consumer spending that crashed in the recession. I don't need a handout from corporations or rich people, I need them to act in the interest of the nation's economy.
Me: People act in their own interests. That is all that should be expected of anyone. If people decide to be charitable, that is also their business. No one, especially government, has the right to force people to serve the interests of others. No one has claim to anyone else's property.
Me: As far as the rich paying more, we already know that whenever another dollar is taxed into government coffers, government spends $1.83. The problem is not, and never has been, a tax problem. It has always been a spending problem.
B.R.: You're making an assumption that the only two ways to act are selfishly and charitably. Let's forget everything for a moment except salary ratios. The disparity between the average CEO's compensation and the average non-executive staff member's compensation has been growing exponentially for years. In 1965, the ratio was 20:1. By 1997, it was 115:1. That rate of expansion has continued. Let's agree on one thing: less Americans would struggle financially if this disparity eased up even a little bit. Right? We can agree on that?
Me: How exactly will cutting CEO pay help you in any way? I am asking seriously. Oh, and I am not suggesting only two ways to act. And I did not day "selfishly," I said acting in their self interest.
Further, it's not anyone's business if someone is acting selfishly, let alone in their self interest, or even charitably. Greed is a moral failing, and you can't legislate morality.
B.R.: It won't help me, it will help others. I'm doing fine, I just have this nagging feeling that 8.6 percent of Americans could use some help. If a large company paid its executives a minor fraction less, it could afford to spend that savings on new positions that would not only help that 8.6, but likely help the business' bottom line by improving efficiency and productivity. It's a smart financial move AND it considers the state of their national and local economy. See, it's not my place to ask someone in the 1% for a handout, or a moral shift. But it is certainly my place to ask them to act like leaders and compromise for the sake of the 8.6%, who God knows have done enough compromising themselves.
Me: I don't mean to be condescending, but do you know why a company hires people? Do you think it's simply a matter of having some dollars laying around doing nothing? Maybe you don't realize is it because there is work that needs to be done?
What I'm saying is that what a CEO is paid is not relevant to how many people are hired.
If 8.6% of people need help, may I respectfully inquire what you personally are doing to help them? Maybe you could take a cut in pay and hire someone? Or perhaps you could write a check to the soup kitchen and stop worrying about what others do with there own money?
B.R.: A wise man said "be wary of philosophies that require minimum effort from - but provide maximum benefit to - the believer". It's willful ignorance to think that the size of a CEO's paycheck doesn't have an impact on the hiring of new employees. Every company I've worked for has wanted more staff members to delegate the ever-increasing workload, but could not afford the payroll expense of new employees. Corporate chains, multi-million dollar non-profits, independent production companies - they all want more people on the team, to make everyone's job more efficient and to hit their departmental goals. If corporations paid less to executives and more to new hires, the economy would benefit and more Americans would be employed.
B.R.: What am I doing? First, I'm supporting my girlfriend, who is one of the 8.6%. Second, I'm delegating parts of my job to an assistant, which I'm paying for with my own salary. Third, I'm having conversations like this.
Me: Respectful inquires get huffy responses.
Me: Willful ignorance? Restating your opinion is not an advancement of your argument. Try again.
Me: If "they all want more people on the team," perhaps you could explain why corporations are being accused of holding back on expenditures resulting in high unemployment? It can't be both ways.
B.R.: Rational conclusions get meta-conversational diversions. I can't explain corporations' actions, or lack thereof, that's why I'm saying they should stop holding back on expenditures that would create more jobs.
Me: *Sigh* I'm asking you to explain the contradiction. On one hand you claim that cutting CEO pay would free up dollars for hiring, but on the other hand corporations are supposedly hanging on to to a bunch of excess money and not hiring.
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