Me: We seem to want to revive and/or reinforce old paradigms about the spirit realm, where people see demons and angels, spiritual warfare is about legality and territories, and spiritual things must look and sound exactly the same as they did in the 80s and 90s.
I have little patience for digging up the corpses of the revivals of decades ago. But for some reason we insist that getting slain in the spirit, or holy laughter, or whatever the previous evidence of the Holy Spirit's move was, that this is the only evidence of a move of God today.
*Dismounts soapbox*
Sorry about that.
Elijah: Don’t use a soap box! 🙌 The stage is yours. Come up to the place of honor: the seat is freely yours. What’s the Holy Spirit doing now?
Me: That’s the other side of my percolations, isn't it? If He's not doing X, then what is He doing? Well, my first instinct is to quote Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart: "I know it when I see it." He of course was referring to an entirely different thing, but the statement is useful to describe the idea that should something happen I will be able to recognize it. Or, the Holy Spirit may be waiting for a moment. Or I might not be able to discern at the moment.
But a better question might be, what is the Holy Spirit doing in me? Maybe in the church as well, but for me, holiness, prayer, and God-pleasing. I know He wants to take me deeper, to places I've never been, places that might get uncomfortable. They won't look like I expect.
Obedience is better than sacrifice, and we are missing it in some areas. It pains me to say it, but it seems that we just want re-lay the train tracks, which of course lead to the same place as before. The church is presently looking to do an excellent church service, an excellent children's ministry, an excellent worship team, and excellent deliverance/discipleship/home group/teaching... there's nothing wrong with all this, but it is cookie cutter stuff, and that's not what we're called to.
We're called to lead the way, break new ground, be a church other churches want to emulate. Pioneers and explorers of God. Innovators and creators. Thinking outside the hoary, centuries-old paradigms.
You want specifics, I'm sure. I don't have them, plus I'm not in leadership. Ultimately, my opinions, ambitions, and dreams don't matter.
There you have it, for what it's worth.
Hannah: Love the convo! Here’s my question …. 🤔if Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever, and the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy isn’t this a declaration that what He’s done before He will do it again? Not saying He will do the exact same thing, but in ways He has moved before do you believe it’s right to have faith that He will do that again and GREATER? Why are you so sure it won’t look similar to past revivals? mass waves of salvations, outbreaks of a move of the Spirits power and deliverances, deep hunger for prayer, corporate repentance, healings signs and wonders!!!! All these I wanna see in my time and MORE!!!
Me: Hannah, we're nibbling around the edges of the same tasty cookie. Revival is and must be salvations, deliverance, and healings. It's the shtick, the show, the "evidences" that people want to copy as if those things mean revival. I lived through all that. God was moving, but so was the flesh. A lot of flesh. So my point is that we should get past the show and to the substance. "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?" That's the show, which may in fact be real demonstrations of the Holy Spirit. But the core matter is, do we stay true to the pursuit of God's heart?
Hannah: like that prayer I hear in my heart “Lord what you’ve done before DO IT AGAIN AND GREATER!!!!!” As a youngin I long to see God move like He did in the 70s (i believe) with just massive moves of the Spirit through salvations and baptisms and people traveling across the world just to get a glimpse in person of Him moving in our midst!!!!! That will be a day 😭😭😭 but here it is…..and MORE- GREATER!!!!! Fill us with faith for the GREATER GOD!!!
Elijah: Rich and Hannah, this is the kind of conversation that leads us to transformation. We see as in a mirror dimly. We know in part and prophesy in part, which is a beautiful grace. If I saw fully and prophesied fully all on my own, I would be tempted to pride and arrogance, coupled together with no need to consult with or receive from anyone. Graciously, God hides unique expressions of himself in each one of us and arranges the parts of the body exactly the way he has ordained so that there would be no divisions among us and that we would have equal concern for one another.
His ways astound me! His provision and protection is beyond perfection!
Blessedly, he does the same thing with us that he did with his Son: everything flows out of hearing and seeing and safeguards our intimate trust with our Father. If it was a formula, we could control it; and, in controlling it, pervert it. While the arc of what God does remains the same--for instance, healing--his means and methods change often. He is always dependable but never predictable, which is a wonderful grace and blessing to us. If we could predict and control him and his ways, the pressure to maintain the perfection of them would be crushing AND, again, we would be opened up to immense pride and the risk of perverting his character and ways.
As it is, we're the children of our Father, the bride of our Groom, and friend with Spirit. What God has done he will do again, but it will be new. It has to be because his glory always grows into glory. I will say the following at great risk of being misunderstood, God cannot part the Red Sea today. God cannot heal lepers with a touch. He cannot multiply food for 5,000+ people. These are all of the things he did in the past and are now below his glory to repeat. To fervently pray that he do the thing that he did yesterday is to seek to constrain his glory's increase, which he will not do: his glory always increases into glory. Likewise, to pray that he do the exact same things-part the Red Sea, cleanse the sick at a touch, and multiply food--only with larger bodies of water, more people who are sick, and feed more people is limited in its application and is very prone to perversion from personal preference and agenda. (Think of James and insights on why we do not receive what we pray for.)
There will be great signs, wonders, and miracles but these will be the overflow of intimate trust not a play book. I will be the first to confess, and please bear with me in patient love by God's Spirit, when God moves in new ways in our era, it will only be by his grace, mercy, kindness and Spirit that I will be able to recognize it, surrender within it, steward it with his authority and see it prosper. Outside of this, I will be its greatest critic and will, as those of old did with Jesus, miss it entirely so as to be its enemy.
My firm hope and foundation is to remain in his presence. Abiding with and in him and he with and in me. Seek his face and allow him to transform me by his presence and glory. As I commune with God in the sanctuary of his heart by Spirit, I will become like him and, in being like him, will walk in his ways.
That's my thought. At least some them.
I love that you are both passionately and intentionally seeking God and his kingdom's come in our day.
Me: Elijah, it really isn't an issue of saying that God won't because He already did, but rather about people saying God isn't because it doesn't look like it looked before.
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