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Almost 1200 words without a single Scripture. Not one.
Ms. Lesley continues expounding on the unquoted 1 Timothy 2:12, a topic upon which she has spent considerable time in the past. Those previous articles have twisted and turned this verse into something unrecognizable.
Today she compounds the problem. She trips all over herself explaining even more limitations and conditions that are simply not found in the text, ultimately contradicting herself.
This is a hopeless mess. Ms. Lesley thinks she is a teacher of women, but she shouldn't be a teacher of anyone.
This is a hopeless mess. Ms. Lesley thinks she is a teacher of women, but she shouldn't be a teacher of anyone.
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Q. “You say that women shouldn’t teach men (1 Timothy 2:12), but what about men who read your blog? Aren’t you teaching them?”
A. It’s the canard that will not die. Complementarian women bloggers, authors, and content creators are frequently asked this question, often by dissenters looking for a “gotcha” moment. Other times it’s a genuine concern from Christian women who want to write but still be in obedience to God’s Word as it speaks to the role of women. But, whatever the motivation for asking, it’s a great question that needs to be answered. Biblically. (Ms. Lesley promises a biblical answer. If by that she means she will be telling us what the Bible says, or even quote the Bible, this will not happen.)
It is true that God has ordained different roles for Christian men and women. Both roles are needed and important, but different. Part of the role for women is outlined in 1 Timothy 2:11-15. Women are not to preach to or teach men in the gathering of the church or hold other positions of authority over men in the church body. (Let's quote the passage, since Ms. Lesley doesn't seem to care to:Now with the Scripture before us, we can evaluate Ms. Lesley's claims.)
But notice that key phrase “in the church.” (?? This phrase does not appear in the passage. However, it does appear in 1Co. 14:34 regarding women, which means Ms. Lesley is likely blending two passages, one not even cited, in order to create her doctrine.
That’s not the same thing as blogging in the public square. (Hmm. That is, "the teaching of God’s Word" in the gathering together of the body of believers is not the same as "the teaching of God's Word" when Christian men read her blog.)
You’re reading this blog right now. Are you practicing the “one anothers” with anyone? Is anyone standing in front of you preaching the Word? Are you actively worshiping? Do you see an offering being taken up? Baptism? Communion? Prayer? Do you consider yourself to be attending church right now? Of course not. You’re staring at a screen reading an article. This is a blog. Not the gathering of the church. (Ms. Lesley is carefully carving out the minutiae of why what she is doing is not in violation of Scripture. Apparently, doing "churchy" things is what constitutes the scenario of 1Ti. 2:12. It only applies to times when Christians are gathered doing "churchy" things. Any and every other situation of her teaching men is therefore permissible.
The Greek word for “church” in the New Testament is ἐκκλησία, or ekklesia. It literally means a gathering or assembly. ("Literally." Well, sometimes. That's one possible definition, no doubt chosen because it suits Ms. Lesley's narrative. The word literally means:
When I explain this biblical distinction to the “gotcha” folks, the pushback (that’s a polite word for it) I often get is, “You’re just hypocritically splitting hairs and doing hermeneutical gymnastics to justify yourself!”. No, you’re just conflating things the Bible clearly distinguishes from one another. (Accusation countered with another accusation. Meh.)
Think of it this way: If I say that all sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful, but I joyfully fulfill my marital duty to my husband, am I a hypocrite? Am I splitting hairs or doing hermeneutical gymnastics? No. Because there are right and wrong contexts for sexual activity just like there are right and wrong contexts for women teaching the Bible, writing on biblical topics, and so on. The Bible has defined categories and contexts. (Oh, how we long for her to actually quote the Bible.)
Q. “You say that women shouldn’t teach men (1 Timothy 2:12), but what about men who read your blog? Aren’t you teaching them?”
A. It’s the canard that will not die. Complementarian women bloggers, authors, and content creators are frequently asked this question, often by dissenters looking for a “gotcha” moment. Other times it’s a genuine concern from Christian women who want to write but still be in obedience to God’s Word as it speaks to the role of women. But, whatever the motivation for asking, it’s a great question that needs to be answered. Biblically. (Ms. Lesley promises a biblical answer. If by that she means she will be telling us what the Bible says, or even quote the Bible, this will not happen.)
It is true that God has ordained different roles for Christian men and women. Both roles are needed and important, but different. Part of the role for women is outlined in 1 Timothy 2:11-15. Women are not to preach to or teach men in the gathering of the church or hold other positions of authority over men in the church body. (Let's quote the passage, since Ms. Lesley doesn't seem to care to:
1Ti. 2:12-15 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But she will be saved through childbearing — if she continues in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
But notice that key phrase “in the church.” (?? This phrase does not appear in the passage. However, it does appear in 1Co. 14:34 regarding women, which means Ms. Lesley is likely blending two passages, one not even cited, in order to create her doctrine.
Here's that mystery verse:
1Co. 14:34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.)
The context of all of the passages dealing with women refraining from teaching men refers to the teaching of God’s Word in the gathering together of the body of believers. ("All the passages?" How about quoting them, Ms. Lesley? Why are they secret?
She won't quote them because there are no Scriptures that prevent women from teaching men "in the gathering together of the body of believers." We have discussed this in detail here.
That idea is inferred by making by three false assumptions about 1 Timothy 2:12:
- Timothy was the pastor [unstated assumption],
- Paul was instructing Timothy about how his church should function [false assumption], and
- 1 Timothy 2:12 is directly correlated to 1Co. 14:34 [false assumption].
None of these are true. Timothy was not a young pastor being taught how to lead his church, rather, he was an associate of Paul sent on assignment to take care of problems in this church.
Church order is not discussed until 1 Timothy chapter 3. Therefore, since 1 Timothy 2:12 is not about church order, it does not correlate to 1Co. 14:34. Let's quote it again:
1Co. 14:34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
1Co. 14:34 doesn't tell us anything about women instructing men, since teaching isn't mentioned. Nor does it talk about women in leadership. It is not even about the total silence of women in the church, because Paul gives instruction about women praying and prophesying in church only a couple of chapters before [1Co. 11:5].
Throughout this extended passage that covers several chapters, Paul is definitely discussing church order:
1Co. 11:16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice — nor do the churches of God.
Paul proceeds to explain church order in the Lord's supper [1Co. 11:20-34], the spiritual gifts and the Body [1Co. 12:1-31], how love operates [1Co. 13:1-13], how tongues and prophecy operate[1Co. 14:26-33], and then he finally gets to women being silent.
If 1Co. 14:34 means what Ms. Lesley seems to think it means, then Paul is coming out of left field here, considering what he previously wrote. However, Paul does not contradict his earlier statements about women prophesying and praying in church. Paul gives a very specific reason for his command:
1Co. 14:35 If they want to enquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home...
We must remember that Paul is writing a letter to this church, likely because either someone wrote to him, someone reported to him what was going on, he was asked a question, or he had a situation described to him. In any case, most of the time we have only hints of what Paul is responding to. We don't have the letter written by the Corinthians, we don't know what questions were asked, and we don't know the entire context for his answer.
So we can only speculate as to what was happening here. Paul tells the Corinthians that women must be silent in church, because their questions should be asked to their husbands at home. Apparently it was disorderly. A couple of verses earlier he writes:
1Co. 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
"Disorder" is akatastasia, which is disturbance, upheaval, revolution, almost anarchy... This was much more chaotic than a woman simply talking in church; it was a madhouse.
So Paul is clearly not telling the Corinthians that women must be at all times silent in church. He's not creating a doctrine for our application. Nor does this verse correlate to his command in 1Ti. 2:12.
No, Paul is addressing a very specific disorderly situation, one that we would say is a unique occurrence.)
That’s not the same thing as blogging in the public square. (Hmm. That is, "the teaching of God’s Word" in the gathering together of the body of believers is not the same as "the teaching of God's Word" when Christian men read her blog.)
The gathering of the church body might take place within the four walls of a church building, at a park for a Resurrection Day sunrise service, at a Christian conference, at a chapel service at a Christian college or seminary, at a Bible study in someone’s home, or a myriad of other venues, but it’s just that – a physical gathering together of the body of Christ for the purpose of worship, studying the Word, sitting under the preaching of the Word, observing the ordinances, prayer, practicing the “one anothers,” and other “churchy” (emphasis added) things.
You’re reading this blog right now. Are you practicing the “one anothers” with anyone? Is anyone standing in front of you preaching the Word? Are you actively worshiping? Do you see an offering being taken up? Baptism? Communion? Prayer? Do you consider yourself to be attending church right now? Of course not. You’re staring at a screen reading an article. This is a blog. Not the gathering of the church. (Ms. Lesley is carefully carving out the minutiae of why what she is doing is not in violation of Scripture. Apparently, doing "churchy" things is what constitutes the scenario of 1Ti. 2:12. It only applies to times when Christians are gathered doing "churchy" things. Any and every other situation of her teaching men is therefore permissible.
If someone would answer her questions with, "yes, I am a man in church doing churchy things with other Christians, while reading your blog," this person has caused Ms. Lesley to sin.
However, if the man answers, "no, I am in a park sitting alone in the sun reading your blog," Ms. Lesly is not not being caused to sin, because the man is not in a church gathering doing "churchy" things.
Which means Ms. Lesley's standard is not her own behavior, but rather what someone else is doing.
Does this scenario seem bizarre? After reading the verses above, would such a conclusion naturally occur to the reader? No, of course not. Ms. Lesley is bobbing and weaving, justifying her actions and her doctrine, most egregiously by making her sin contingent on the behavior of others.
All based on the false premise that 1 Timothy 2:12 applies solely to what happens in a gathering of the saints for "churchy" purposes. This is frankly a product of a darkened soul.)
The Greek word for “church” in the New Testament is ἐκκλησία, or ekklesia. It literally means a gathering or assembly. ("Literally." Well, sometimes. That's one possible definition, no doubt chosen because it suits Ms. Lesley's narrative. The word literally means:
from 1537 /ek, "out from and to" and 2564 /kaléō, "to call") – properly, people called out from the world and to God...
It can either mean an assembly of Christians, or the whole of Christianity as the Body of Christ. Which suggests that "church" is wherever a Christian happens to be. Or maybe it's with one or two others [Mt. 18:20].
So it does not matter if someone is standing in front of you preaching the Word, or if you are actively worshiping, or if an offering is being taken up, or if there's a baptism, communion, or prayer. Church is not a location where "churchy" things are done, it the people of God wherever they are.
And by the way, the word ekklesia does not appear in 1 Timothy until chapter 3, which perfectly aligns with our contention that church order is not being discussed in chapter 2.)
No gathering, no church.1 And because of that, women bloggers and other content creators aren’t violating the Scriptures that prohibit them from teaching men in the gathering of the church. (And, by the way, this all applies to women on social media, too. That’s not the gathering of the church either, praise the Lord.) (Can you imagine? There's one and only one place that 1 Timothy 2:12 applies: churchy church. There are 15 words from this verse [I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man] that Ms. Lesley has parsed, proviso-ed, contextualized, reinterpreted, and micro-analyzed to the point of absurdity.
She has written perhaps dozens of articles explaining this little snippet of Scripture. All based on the penumbras and emanations of a simple verse.)
When I explain this biblical distinction to the “gotcha” folks, the pushback (that’s a polite word for it) I often get is, “You’re just hypocritically splitting hairs and doing hermeneutical gymnastics to justify yourself!”. No, you’re just conflating things the Bible clearly distinguishes from one another. (Accusation countered with another accusation. Meh.)
Think of it this way: If I say that all sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful, but I joyfully fulfill my marital duty to my husband, am I a hypocrite? Am I splitting hairs or doing hermeneutical gymnastics? No. Because there are right and wrong contexts for sexual activity just like there are right and wrong contexts for women teaching the Bible, writing on biblical topics, and so on. The Bible has defined categories and contexts. (Oh, how we long for her to actually quote the Bible.)
The Bible draws lines of distinction. Conflating a biblical “do” with a biblical “don’t”? That’s what’s unbiblical.
But let’s consider something else, too. Even though Scripture doesn’t require it, most godly, doctrinally sound women bloggers and online content creators – including me – aim our content primarily at Christian women. I have set up parameters for my blog (and my book, when it was in print) and for my ministry to do everything I can to place myself under the umbrella of 1 Timothy 2:12. Look at the title of this page and my Facebook page. It specifically says “Discipleship for Christian Women“. My book was always labeled and marketed as a women’s Bible study. If you’ll take a look at the “Welcome” tab at the top of this page, you’ll see I explicitly say that this blog is for Christian women and that I’m a complementarian. When I address the readers of this blog I nearly always address them as “ladies,” both because my target audience is women, and also to remind the handful of men who follow me that they are not my audience; they are, in a sense, “eavesdropping” on what I’m saying to women. My speaking engagements are for women only. I ask men not to use my Bible studies. I’m not really sure what more I need to do to make it clear that my blog and my ministry are for women, not men. (Clearly Ms. Lesley makes a lot of effort to teach men about what they can and cannot do with her blog. Oh, that's right. Her blog isn't "church," so she is free to teach men.
But let’s consider something else, too. Even though Scripture doesn’t require it, most godly, doctrinally sound women bloggers and online content creators – including me – aim our content primarily at Christian women. I have set up parameters for my blog (and my book, when it was in print) and for my ministry to do everything I can to place myself under the umbrella of 1 Timothy 2:12. Look at the title of this page and my Facebook page. It specifically says “Discipleship for Christian Women“. My book was always labeled and marketed as a women’s Bible study. If you’ll take a look at the “Welcome” tab at the top of this page, you’ll see I explicitly say that this blog is for Christian women and that I’m a complementarian. When I address the readers of this blog I nearly always address them as “ladies,” both because my target audience is women, and also to remind the handful of men who follow me that they are not my audience; they are, in a sense, “eavesdropping” on what I’m saying to women. My speaking engagements are for women only. I ask men not to use my Bible studies. I’m not really sure what more I need to do to make it clear that my blog and my ministry are for women, not men. (Clearly Ms. Lesley makes a lot of effort to teach men about what they can and cannot do with her blog. Oh, that's right. Her blog isn't "church," so she is free to teach men.
But waaaait. If her blog isn't a "churchy" meeting, then all the restrictions and rules of her blog which are directed at men don't need to be there, do they? She's made a big to-do about her blog not being in violation of 1 Timothy 2:12, but she still puts up a fence around her blog. Whhaaat?
This kind of confusion is the direct result of not rightly dividing the Scriptures. Ms. Lesley should immediately withdraw herself from teaching and shut down her blog.)
Don’t men bear any responsibility here? (Whhaaat? Ms. Lesley previously created a scenario by which men were responsible for her sin, and we provided an example of a man in church reading her blog. Then she recounts all the things she has done to teach men they can't read her blog, but now she wants men to assume responsibility for violating her rules, rules that don't even need to be there since her blog is not the assembly of the church.
Don’t men bear any responsibility here? (Whhaaat? Ms. Lesley previously created a scenario by which men were responsible for her sin, and we provided an example of a man in church reading her blog. Then she recounts all the things she has done to teach men they can't read her blog, but now she wants men to assume responsibility for violating her rules, rules that don't even need to be there since her blog is not the assembly of the church.
It just gets worse and worse.
We have finally reached our limit, and we shall cease commenting.)
Why should the entire burden for women not “teaching” men fall on the shoulders of women bloggers and content creators? Why don’t the Christian men who are ostensibly so concerned about men consuming content from women address the men who are reading our blogs and following our platforms?
But sometimes these “gotcha guys” – who often have ulterior motives of undermining complementarianism – will visit my blog, claim to have learned something, and then turn around and attack me as a hypocrite for “teaching” them. This is akin to a man listening at the door of a women’s Sunday school class, then bursting in and saying, “Aha! You taught a man.” To those men, I would ask a simple question- If a female blogger puts a fence around her blog and you jump over it and trespass on her property, how is she the one at fault?
Along with Christian women, Christian men ought also to be obedient to 1 Timothy 2:12 by not seeking out female content creators for biblical instruction for themselves. While I welcome male readers – especially those who are vetting me for their wives and daughters or the women of their church, or to gain a better understanding of the issues affecting Christian women in order to lead and shepherd them better – I do not want men seeking me out for personal biblical instruction. All of my readers should look to the doctrinally sound teaching of their pastors and elders for biblical instruction. For women, my blog should only be a leisure time supplement to their sermons and classes at church.
Being a godly female blogger or content creator can be a tightrope walk. All of us have fallen off from time to time, and in those cases we ask that you extend us grace and forgiveness, knowing that we didn’t do it intentionally or rebelliously. Praise God for the “net” of God’s mercy and cleansing that catches us and puts us right back up on that tightrope so we can encourage and build up the lovely Christian ladies in our audience. You mean so much to each of us. We love you and want you to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. That’s why we do what we do.
1This is why it is impossible to “attend church” by watching an online church service. You are not “attending church” online, you are watching other people attend church.
This article is an updated and revamped version of the original article by the same title, published on October 23, 2015.
But sometimes these “gotcha guys” – who often have ulterior motives of undermining complementarianism – will visit my blog, claim to have learned something, and then turn around and attack me as a hypocrite for “teaching” them. This is akin to a man listening at the door of a women’s Sunday school class, then bursting in and saying, “Aha! You taught a man.” To those men, I would ask a simple question- If a female blogger puts a fence around her blog and you jump over it and trespass on her property, how is she the one at fault?
Along with Christian women, Christian men ought also to be obedient to 1 Timothy 2:12 by not seeking out female content creators for biblical instruction for themselves. While I welcome male readers – especially those who are vetting me for their wives and daughters or the women of their church, or to gain a better understanding of the issues affecting Christian women in order to lead and shepherd them better – I do not want men seeking me out for personal biblical instruction. All of my readers should look to the doctrinally sound teaching of their pastors and elders for biblical instruction. For women, my blog should only be a leisure time supplement to their sermons and classes at church.
Being a godly female blogger or content creator can be a tightrope walk. All of us have fallen off from time to time, and in those cases we ask that you extend us grace and forgiveness, knowing that we didn’t do it intentionally or rebelliously. Praise God for the “net” of God’s mercy and cleansing that catches us and puts us right back up on that tightrope so we can encourage and build up the lovely Christian ladies in our audience. You mean so much to each of us. We love you and want you to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. That’s why we do what we do.
1This is why it is impossible to “attend church” by watching an online church service. You are not “attending church” online, you are watching other people attend church.
This article is an updated and revamped version of the original article by the same title, published on October 23, 2015.
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