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Newt Gingrich admits Trump probably can't get Mexico to pay for his wall. 'But it was a great campaign device.'
Me: Yup, and my health insurance went down $2500.
B.L.: My insurance is going up, and has gone up. It's going to be cheaper now to pay the fine than have insurance. The good of the ACA is offset by the bad. The only way to control health care costs is single payer.
Me: The only way to control costs is the free market.
K.J.: Right, because when you're having a heart attack you're sure to shop around for the lowest prices.
Me: Which of course has nothing to do with my comment.
K.J.: Sure it does. Competitive pricing is one of the cornerstones of the free market. But you can’t shop around when you’re in the middle of a medical emergency, and besides, comparison shopping is extremely complex and confusing because success in treatment isn't guaranteed, and different therapeutic approaches have different outcomes for different patient populations.
There are a number of other reasons that the free market doesn’t work for health care, including the fact that legally you can’t deny it to people who can’t pay. I’d be happy to provide more examples if you’d like.
Me: You're term switching. "Competitive pricing" is not the same as "shopping around."
Me: Yup, and my health insurance went down $2500.
B.L.: My insurance is going up, and has gone up. It's going to be cheaper now to pay the fine than have insurance. The good of the ACA is offset by the bad. The only way to control health care costs is single payer.
Me: The only way to control costs is the free market.
K.J.: Right, because when you're having a heart attack you're sure to shop around for the lowest prices.
Me: Which of course has nothing to do with my comment.
K.J.: Sure it does. Competitive pricing is one of the cornerstones of the free market. But you can’t shop around when you’re in the middle of a medical emergency, and besides, comparison shopping is extremely complex and confusing because success in treatment isn't guaranteed, and different therapeutic approaches have different outcomes for different patient populations.
There are a number of other reasons that the free market doesn’t work for health care, including the fact that legally you can’t deny it to people who can’t pay. I’d be happy to provide more examples if you’d like.
Me: You're term switching. "Competitive pricing" is not the same as "shopping around."
K.J.: Not the same, but directly related. You're splitting hairs.
Me: You set up a ridiculous scenario in order to divert. I didn't bite. Try again.
K.J.: Not ridiculous. And your not biting doesn't make it so.
K.J.: Not ridiculous. And your not biting doesn't make it so.
Me: You haven't even bothered to ask what I mean by the free market. You impose something unrelated to my point as if that defines my point.
If you happen to be interested in exchanging ideas, you might try understanding your interlocutor.
K.J.: Okay, I'll bite: If you mean something other than the common definition of "free market", please do elaborate.
Me: The voluntary, legal exchange of things of value between private parties. And by the way, you did not provide any definition of the free market, let alone a common one.
K.J.: Unnecessary. It's a common term. If you are using it in a way that's different from common understanding, the onus is on you to make the distinction. But it sounds like you are not, and therefore it isn't an argument against my points.
Me: Based on the above, it is clear that the free market does not mean shopping for a doctor while having a heart attack. I am not surprised you think that it does, for it seems clear you have no idea what the free market is all about.
Since it is you who is making absurd characterizations about what constitutes a free market, it is you who must establish the idea that the only way the free market works is when you have a heart attack and somehow have never before considered the need for obtaining a contractual arrangement for health care.
Most every problem in the health care industry is the result of government meddling. 30 years ago, health insurance and health care was affordable, simple, and worked well. As mandates, lawsuits, and regulation increased, health care began to fall apart.
The logical conclusion is that more government involvement will mean more inefficiency, more expense, and more people who cannot obtain health care.
Now I must bow out before you construct another straw man or begin railing about evil CEOs and how insurance companies want you sick.
If you happen to be interested in exchanging ideas, you might try understanding your interlocutor.
K.J.: Okay, I'll bite: If you mean something other than the common definition of "free market", please do elaborate.
Me: The voluntary, legal exchange of things of value between private parties. And by the way, you did not provide any definition of the free market, let alone a common one.
K.J.: Unnecessary. It's a common term. If you are using it in a way that's different from common understanding, the onus is on you to make the distinction. But it sounds like you are not, and therefore it isn't an argument against my points.
Me: Based on the above, it is clear that the free market does not mean shopping for a doctor while having a heart attack. I am not surprised you think that it does, for it seems clear you have no idea what the free market is all about.
Since it is you who is making absurd characterizations about what constitutes a free market, it is you who must establish the idea that the only way the free market works is when you have a heart attack and somehow have never before considered the need for obtaining a contractual arrangement for health care.
Most every problem in the health care industry is the result of government meddling. 30 years ago, health insurance and health care was affordable, simple, and worked well. As mandates, lawsuits, and regulation increased, health care began to fall apart.
The logical conclusion is that more government involvement will mean more inefficiency, more expense, and more people who cannot obtain health care.
Now I must bow out before you construct another straw man or begin railing about evil CEOs and how insurance companies want you sick.
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