Found here. My comments in bold.
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We have commented on Rev. Wade before. We have not been impressed by his biblical exposition, nor his demeanor. This article, long, pedantic, and obtuse, is in keeping with these shortcomings, and is in fact very nearly astounding for its misrepresentation of Kris Vallotton's statements.
It is noteworthy that Vallotton clearly says that Christians do sin. In spite of this, the author again and again hyperbolically asserts that Vallotton is teaching "sinless perfection."
We do not specifically intend to defend Vallotton or Bethel church. We shall, however, analyze the author's presentation.
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Thursday, June 27, 2019
Friday, June 21, 2019
Cessationism: Episode 9, the work of the Holy Spirit. Baptized in the Spirit?
Our next Episode in the cessationism series.
Additional Episodes:
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Additional Episodes:
- Episode 1, the Perfect.
- Episode 2, the apostles.
- Episode 3, prophecy.
- Episode 4, the closed canon.
- Episode 5, extra biblical reasons.
- Episode 6, only the apostles had all truth.
- Episode 7, there were only limited periods of miracles.
- Episode 8, tongues.
- Episode 9, the work of the Holy Spirit.
- Episode 10, does God speak only through the Scriptures?
- Episode 11, what about impressions?
- Episode 12, what is discernment?
- Episode 13, the sufficiency of Scripture.
- Episode 14, Was the purpose of miracles restricted to the authentication of the apostles?
- Episode 15, Is revival excluded because of apostasy?
- Episode 16, is prophecy subjective?
- Episode 17, Could only the apostles confer miraculous powers or gifts?
- Episode 18, are charismatics functional cessationists?
- be from the Bible
- Not appeal to contemporary expressions of charismata
- Not appeal to silence
- Not appeal to events or practices of history
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Wednesday, June 19, 2019
Modern Restoration of Apostles? - by Chris Rosebrough
Found here. My comments in bold.
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We are happy the author provides us with extended quotes from those with whom he disagrees. We are also delighted at the largely even-handed presentation.
What is absent from the author's presentation is Scripture. He manages to provide only two tangential verses and a handful of Scripture references. For all his hyperbole about Sola Scriptura, Scripture is conspicuously absent from his presentation.
We should note that our intention is not to defend the N.A.R. or any of the people the author quotes. Instead, we intend to examine the author's presentation.
-------------------
What the N.A.R. Really Teaches
For nineteen centuries the church has existed without any living apostles (The features of history are not relevant to the biblical case. The author will need to establish his case, if he can, from the Scriptures.
And by the way, how does he know there weren't apostles, when it's possible that they might have existed, but not have been identified as such?)
who operated in the same power, authority and office as Peter, James, John, Paul (What is the biblical basis for this requirement? Well, there isn't one.)
and the others whom Jesus sent into the world to make disciples. But for those who buy into the ideas and teachings of the New Apostolic Reformation (N.A.R.), (C. Peter Wagner coined this phrase in the 1980s to describe a coming reformation of understanding regarding supernatural power, and the leadership structure in the church. Some in the charismatic camp embraced the descriptor, many embraced the teachings, and others actually linked themselves with Wagner.
However, the Doctrinal Police have latched onto the phrase as a pejorative, using it as a bludgeon to dismiss anyone who might have charismatic leanings. Or even a minor doctrinal difference.
Among the Doctrinal Police, it is an epithet.)
------------------
We are happy the author provides us with extended quotes from those with whom he disagrees. We are also delighted at the largely even-handed presentation.
What is absent from the author's presentation is Scripture. He manages to provide only two tangential verses and a handful of Scripture references. For all his hyperbole about Sola Scriptura, Scripture is conspicuously absent from his presentation.
We should note that our intention is not to defend the N.A.R. or any of the people the author quotes. Instead, we intend to examine the author's presentation.
-------------------
What the N.A.R. Really Teaches
For nineteen centuries the church has existed without any living apostles (The features of history are not relevant to the biblical case. The author will need to establish his case, if he can, from the Scriptures.
And by the way, how does he know there weren't apostles, when it's possible that they might have existed, but not have been identified as such?)
who operated in the same power, authority and office as Peter, James, John, Paul (What is the biblical basis for this requirement? Well, there isn't one.)
and the others whom Jesus sent into the world to make disciples. But for those who buy into the ideas and teachings of the New Apostolic Reformation (N.A.R.), (C. Peter Wagner coined this phrase in the 1980s to describe a coming reformation of understanding regarding supernatural power, and the leadership structure in the church. Some in the charismatic camp embraced the descriptor, many embraced the teachings, and others actually linked themselves with Wagner.
However, the Doctrinal Police have latched onto the phrase as a pejorative, using it as a bludgeon to dismiss anyone who might have charismatic leanings. Or even a minor doctrinal difference.
Among the Doctrinal Police, it is an epithet.)
Monday, June 17, 2019
dontbanequality.com
Found here. My comments in bold.
----------------------
This is an advocacy group that is all in for abortion, enlisting corporate support. And they want everyone to know it.
The first thing we wonder about this is, why do these companies want to drive away pro life customers? Why would a business want to alienate a substantial part of their potential clientele?
Second, we note the irony of describing a policy that will kill future clients as being good for business.
Third, we note that this issue is represented as a matter of equality, which implies that bearing children makes people unequal. Where this disdain for families comes from is mystifying.
Last, we wonder how being against the murder of unborn children is hindering peoples' health.
-----------------------
Equality in the workplace is one of the most important business issues of our time. (Unsupported assertion.)
When everyone is empowered to succeed, our companies, our communities, and our economy are better for it. (Unsupported assertion.)
Restricting access to comprehensive reproductive care, including abortion, threatens the health, independence and economic stability of our employees and customers. (Unsupported assertion.)
Simply put, it goes against our values, and is bad for business. (Unsupported assertion.)
It impairs our ability to build diverse and inclusive workforce pipelines, recruit top talent across the states, and protect the wellbeing of all the people who keep our businesses thriving day in and out. (Unsupported assertion.)
The future of equality hangs in the balance, putting our families, communities, businesses, and the economy at risk. (Unsupported assertion.)
We, the undersigned, employ more than 108,000 workers (The number of people employed is 156,758,000. That is .0689% of the workforce.)
and stand against policies that hinder people’s health, independence, and ability to fully succeed in the workplace. (Unsupported assertion.)
Don’t Ban Equality Coalition To see the full list of signers, visit DontBanEquality.com
----------------------
This is an advocacy group that is all in for abortion, enlisting corporate support. And they want everyone to know it.
The first thing we wonder about this is, why do these companies want to drive away pro life customers? Why would a business want to alienate a substantial part of their potential clientele?
Second, we note the irony of describing a policy that will kill future clients as being good for business.
Third, we note that this issue is represented as a matter of equality, which implies that bearing children makes people unequal. Where this disdain for families comes from is mystifying.
Last, we wonder how being against the murder of unborn children is hindering peoples' health.
-----------------------
Equality in the workplace is one of the most important business issues of our time. (Unsupported assertion.)
When everyone is empowered to succeed, our companies, our communities, and our economy are better for it. (Unsupported assertion.)
Restricting access to comprehensive reproductive care, including abortion, threatens the health, independence and economic stability of our employees and customers. (Unsupported assertion.)
Simply put, it goes against our values, and is bad for business. (Unsupported assertion.)
It impairs our ability to build diverse and inclusive workforce pipelines, recruit top talent across the states, and protect the wellbeing of all the people who keep our businesses thriving day in and out. (Unsupported assertion.)
The future of equality hangs in the balance, putting our families, communities, businesses, and the economy at risk. (Unsupported assertion.)
We, the undersigned, employ more than 108,000 workers (The number of people employed is 156,758,000. That is .0689% of the workforce.)
and stand against policies that hinder people’s health, independence, and ability to fully succeed in the workplace. (Unsupported assertion.)
Don’t Ban Equality Coalition To see the full list of signers, visit DontBanEquality.com
Friday, June 14, 2019
Mike Pence doesn’t quite realize the Bible’s lessons pertain to him, too | Opinion - BY LEONARD PITTS JR.
Found here. My comments in bold.
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Mr. Pitts, as is typical for leftists, completely misrepresents the Bible and the people who believe it. Interestingly he is happy to judge Pence's sin.
---------------------------
Mike Pence was right. At least, inadvertently, he was.
In a commencement address Saturday at Liberty University, the Christian evangelical college in Virginia, the vice president warned graduates that they should expect to be “shunned or ridiculed for defending the teachings of the Bible.”
“As you go about your daily life,” he said, “just be ready because you’re going to be asked not just to tolerate things that violate your faith, you’re going to be asked to endorse them.”
And yes, an argument can be made that this was sound advice, albeit not in the way Pence intended it to be. (Mr. Pitts does not actually supply us with the reason this is sound advice.)
Take, for instance, Jesus’ admonition that “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor.” Anyone who supports the idea of giving to the poor should expect to be “shunned or ridiculed” by the likes of Mitt Romney, who said 47 percent of us don’t want to work, (Mr. Romney did not say this. I wonder what Mr. Pitts believes about bearing false witness? The quote:
---------------------------
Mr. Pitts, as is typical for leftists, completely misrepresents the Bible and the people who believe it. Interestingly he is happy to judge Pence's sin.
---------------------------
Mike Pence was right. At least, inadvertently, he was.
In a commencement address Saturday at Liberty University, the Christian evangelical college in Virginia, the vice president warned graduates that they should expect to be “shunned or ridiculed for defending the teachings of the Bible.”
“As you go about your daily life,” he said, “just be ready because you’re going to be asked not just to tolerate things that violate your faith, you’re going to be asked to endorse them.”
And yes, an argument can be made that this was sound advice, albeit not in the way Pence intended it to be. (Mr. Pitts does not actually supply us with the reason this is sound advice.)
Take, for instance, Jesus’ admonition that “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor.” Anyone who supports the idea of giving to the poor should expect to be “shunned or ridiculed” by the likes of Mitt Romney, who said 47 percent of us don’t want to work, (Mr. Romney did not say this. I wonder what Mr. Pitts believes about bearing false witness? The quote:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. ... These are people who pay no income tax. ... [M]y job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."Nowhere in this comment did Mr. Romney say that 47% don't want to work.)
Monday, June 10, 2019
Four Dumb Myths Charismatics Believe That Aren’t Real - by News Division
Found here. Our comments in bold.
Lastly we note the author's acerbic and disrespectful writing style. He clearly disdains charismatics, whose only sin is to have a different doctrinal perspective than he does.
-----------------------------
Many of the author's objections are thoroughly covered elsewhere in our blog. We shall note them with links so as not to complicate our presentation.
Where the author makes new claims, we shall examine them.
We note yet again a common theme among those who claim "discernment" ministries. They hardly ever quote Scripture, and the author is no exception. In fact, he doesn't make a single biblical argument, or even an argument of any kind. He only mocks, denies, and then moves on.
Also, he manages to quote only a single snippet of a Scripture. That's it. One.
Lastly we note the author's acerbic and disrespectful writing style. He clearly disdains charismatics, whose only sin is to have a different doctrinal perspective than he does.
This entire screed is bereft of a single intelligent thought. There is nothing here at all. Nothing. We are mystified that he even bothered to write it.
---------------------------
Wednesday, June 5, 2019
6 Reasons We Don’t Need Song Leaders in Worship - BY JONATHAN AIGNER
Found here. My comments in bold.
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One would expect the author to provide at least one biblical reason for not having song leaders. In fact, we would expect the author to quote or even reference at least one Scripture to document his case.
He does neither.
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In many ways the song leader is the single most important person in leading great congregational singing.
A friend sent me this quote last week, found buried within promotional material for something called a “Word in Song” conference put on by some group called Emu Music. A look at their “Who We Are” tab reveals this group to be predominantly Anglican. Keep that in mind. We’re not talking about a bunch of Hillsong disciples or quasi-charismatic evangelicals here.
(...)
Naturally, as one who believes wholeheartedly that each Christian church should be a singing church, this quote and its source made me shudder. It’s long been obvious that as modern society moved from being one of music-making to one of music-consuming, the free church was following suit. (Undocumented assertion.
And we wonder how one can consume music unless someone is also making music.)
-----------------------
One would expect the author to provide at least one biblical reason for not having song leaders. In fact, we would expect the author to quote or even reference at least one Scripture to document his case.
He does neither.
----------------------
In many ways the song leader is the single most important person in leading great congregational singing.
A friend sent me this quote last week, found buried within promotional material for something called a “Word in Song” conference put on by some group called Emu Music. A look at their “Who We Are” tab reveals this group to be predominantly Anglican. Keep that in mind. We’re not talking about a bunch of Hillsong disciples or quasi-charismatic evangelicals here.
(...)
Naturally, as one who believes wholeheartedly that each Christian church should be a singing church, this quote and its source made me shudder. It’s long been obvious that as modern society moved from being one of music-making to one of music-consuming, the free church was following suit. (Undocumented assertion.
And we wonder how one can consume music unless someone is also making music.)
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